Worst part is it’s not even just Vengeance. Havoc feels just as bad compared to most other classes and the Demon Hunter section on the Alpha Forums is the one with the least amount of feedback out of all classes.
Is it because people are giving up on the class and rerolling something else? Is it because DHs are getting almost nothing in Shadowlands? Is it because almost no DH mains got Alpha access? Either way it’s bad for us and bad for the game.
I think it has to do with the fact that we have been giving the same feedback for two years, there is not a lot to say at this point.
At this point it seems they really dont give a #*"@ about VDH.
Its like either play havoc or just be gimped for most of an expanson recieving bandaids here and there .
I honestly wonder now if the DH devs even play VDH outside a few mins of testing.
The talent tree changes and their manifesto for it is hillarious as it had the complete opposite effect , if i could refund SL at this point i would, lesson learnt though i wont preorder ever again.
Just so you know, Havoc doesn’t look much better either.
Since DH release havoc had that 1 time in EN where they got benched and have been arguably too strong most of their existence, i meant in general not SL in particular, also while i cant say its great its still way more functional resource and rotationwise.
To be honest i imagine after all the bells and whistles are added in SL havoc will be ok, basically its still in a far better place than Vengence.
I understand, but my comment was regarding the general state of Havoc and Vengeance in Shadowlands alpha. They are currently in a bad spot mechanically, but numbers is a whole different ball game that can be changed in a single patch update.
Both specs need some form of mechanical change, but Vengeance’s problems are certainly more obvious (and serious) than Havoc’s.
Ah yeah fair enough , i was more ranting in the direction of havoc being viable and or strong most of its life vs veng scraping the bottom of the barrel most tiers then getting a bandaid that generally ends up compounding into more issues later 
It’s like Blizz is actively discouraging VDH play.
Try harder, Bluzz. Vengeance is, and will always be … mine.
There’s just so much stuff I wish we could get baseline or changed going into Shadowlands. Gluttony being completely gone hurts, I’ve loved that trait/talent since it came out in Legion. Charred Flesh needs to be baseline or just go, it’s useless unless we get the fiery brand leggos again and even then. Feast of souls is boring and will never be picked unless it’s overtuned.
Right now the loss of VOP and Gluttony is going to hurt VDH real hard, getting a meta for a few seconds every 45 seconds isn’t going to be nearly as strong. Fel devastation needs a shorter CD in my opinion.
I actually laughed that even someone like Bellular said " i couldnt reccomend this class to anyone " top kek
I usually agree with Bellular’s assessments and it’s true that Vengeance is in a very bad spot, but I hated when he said that he likes Essence Break (Havoc) and hopes more people take it. I was like… yikers.
Blizz should really complete scrap Vengeance’s Mastery, reduce cooldown on Fel Devastation (because Demonic) and make Fracture baseline. Demonic should be baseline for both specs, but I don’t see this one happening anytime soon,
It will be annoying if Essence Break becomes top talent to take in pve, it is a game play style no one asked for, and one people repeatedly have said for years now, we do not want.