It truly baffles me why I’m fighting other mw’s for the spec to feel better (or specs). It’s like they’re so focused on wanting to believe it’s perfect the way it is, that they’re completely ignoring what it could be if both were fully fleshed out instead of each only having half a tree. Preach.
They won’t even contribute ideas and completely ignore the “but does the combo of the two feel like a jumbled mess?” question every time.
I call it Punch or Pray styles, but I think Blizz can do a better job than “Fistweaving.” I like Mistwalking, but I play my Punch monk more like a brew that heals than a Windwalker that heals.
I honestly feel that the statues and summons being in the general monk tree will give us a more “jack of trades” balance.
I don’t feel like any of the end caps are good for fistweaving. jade only does something when you stand still and channel which really isn’t something you wanna be doing melee. As far as I know, tiger damage doesn’t translate into healing of any sort (maybe I’m wrong about that as I don’t know for sure, but I don’t believe it does). And I think ox could work very interestingly if it functioned like you could taunt mobs to the totem instead of yourself with it. Maybe that could help fw feel better due to it being able to avoid some group damage by taunting mobs away for a few seconds.
More like arguing that feral has to switch forms to actually spend combo points. It would be nonsensical.
In your opinion, you mean. The level of fistweaving a person chooses to go for is dependent on talent choices, whether just mana return, hot extension, additional ReM, or full dps-to-heal. These do not change that in order to do any form of appreciable damage a SooM-focused playstyle needs to be in melee.
The answer is no, clearly showcased through every post I’ve made on this topic.
Okay, because your responses are extremely difficult to parse I am going to pose a hypothetical.
What spells from the current tree will be going to the Mistweaver specific tree?
Vivify cleave? Essence Font? Enveloping Mist?
If they don’t go with them, what will they be given in order to make a distinct kit for mistweaver?
Your answer is no, the actual emperical answer as clearly shown by the spec design and talent trees is yes. This does not change because you do not wish to accept it.
You mean your opinion. This entire argument is a matter of opinions, don’t try to pretend your being scientific about this.
ww, mw, and bm all share some spells. it wouldnt be like building a completely new spec with all new abilities. I gave examples of potential ways they could make the two playstyles feel better whether it’s one tree or two. This was supposed to be discussion board for ideas as to how the playstyles could be improved, and once again, instead of giving any feedback at all on tweaks or changes, you just fight me and the other person saying “hey, this doesn’t feel great with easy content, and will most certainly have issues when harder content comes around”. Honestly baffled. Quit being so defensive. When you hit 70 on your monk and heal some m0s, you’ll see.
Me – “The sky is blue”
You with eyes closed – “No its black”
Me – “No it is empirical reality the sky is blue”
You – “Well that not scientific”
Me – “No I just opened my eyes and looked at reality.”
Pretty much sums up how this discussion has gone.
None of which are included in that list, vivify yes, but the cleave is a mistweaver specific talent.
Yes it would, that is how Blizzard approaches spec design.
I am trying to point out issues in the thought that the specs will have the same kit if new talent trees were introduced, since the entire point of this thread was that splitting the spec into two specs was ‘The Ultimate Fix’. Besides that base point you literally haven’t offered anything to give feedback on, so all I have to go on is whether or not I support the idea of splitting the spec.
I am 70 I just haven’t had time to gear up due to rl things and the forums haven’t updated it for some reason. I’ve also been a mythic raider since WoD so the idea that I’ll find something I don’t already understand from M0s is kind of ridiculous.
Well with a strawman that rickety how ever am I to respond.
Generally, the spec talent trees have three ‘lines’ from top to bottom, each having some sort of different theme or set of options. I don’t see why MW can’t just work with that - make the center one…general stuff everyone probably wants, then the left is fistweavey stuff and the right is channel-y heal-y stuff. Heck, we even have a talent in the center that lets you pick between the punchy bird and the healy noodle. An entirely separate spec sounds like a lot of trouble for something that could be solved in-house, so to speak. Admittedly blizz would just have to be more efficient with the offerings of each talent and node, which they don’t have a great track record of…
I’ve been playing FW and MW equally over the past week though and both feel cool. Issues, ofc, but workable. And I really like the green healy noodle.
Yes, that is the entire point of this discussion. “How could we fill out the two to make them more fleshed out?” Again, you’re supposed to add ideas, but since you’re giving me all the power here and just want to know what I think I’ll throw some more out there, maybe you can find an actual point to argue against if I just spitball off the top of my head ideas since that’s all you’re here for. MW keeps channel, EM, cocoon. FW keeps TP, BoK, RSK, zen pulse, and essence font. They share RM, the mechanic that causes Viv to heal other targets with RM. MW gets either cast while moving SooM that causes all spells to cost more while moving or something like hover where they can move a little from time to time (don’t wanna just copy evoker though so I prefer the first option, Mana tea back baseline or work its functionality into TFT, as well as some sort of on demand aoe heal (it can have a big cd, idc, but the spec needs a way to recover multiple people quickly if you fall behind). FW gets a FLS rework where it puts a buff on the monk and staying in it only benefits you with a some bonus healing, and a new mechanic where TP grants a stack of an instant cast Viv (stacks up like 3 or 4 times so in dire situations they have some instants to rely on if they can’t get in melee).
Working from this concept mechanically I’d actually say EF does more for MW then FW, due to talents like rapid diffusion and rising mist vivify can easily reach enough targets to largely de-emphasise it from the playstyle.
EnvM is a small sore point but it could realistically be replaced with something else to fulfill the Chi-Ji mechanic.
As far as open issues that Blizzard would need to add more spells for
Mistweaver is mostly fine, just lacking required dps kit. With either EF or a new wide aoe they can answer most standard healing situations.
Fistweaver, assuming a change of mastery, is rather poor in terms of single target healing since zen pulse is entirely based on having multiple enemies around the target. A new targeted defensive would be needed as well.
Ah, yes, I think I mentioned the mastery thing in my initial post but that was forever ago now. I think FW should have it’s own mastery. Maybe the mastery would be the percent change that TP gives a stack of insta viv or something. My only thing with EF is that it feels more like an up front and in the fray kind of spell, but if it can be tweaked to have a longer range or something, I’m cool with it staying as a MW thing.
More spells are needed either way at this point imo. Whether it’s one tree or two, idc.
Chi burst and chi wave both feel hamfisted into the monk tree and don’t feel good to press as buttons. Chi burst might be pretty good actually but I’d ditch both for two other options instead
I think the entire point of these new bigger trees was so we could customize and change up the way we play more. MW is already perfect for that because we have some people who want to play more caster heavy and others melee heavy. You’ll also never make a melee healer work in PvP without strong fallback casting options anyway.
The problem is that they didn’t do a good job with either set of options. They don’t need to be split into two separate specs, they just need to work on the talents and even baseline mechanics. They were given numerous suggestions in beta, they just need to use some of them.
Well, mastery is still nearly useless for FW which is a big issue. The two tree idea was so that they could fully flesh out both specs and give each spec some variety of its own. At the end of the day, I really don’t care if it’s one spec or two. I just want both playstyles to feel better to play and to function better.
Yea I think Holy Paladins have that issue as well. I think Paladins just need an entirely new mastery but you could make gust work with FWing fairly easily.
I actually think crane mechanics being up all of the time instead of on a cooldown would make the entire playstyle flow better since you could weave in instant EM regularly and have gust procs. They could just tune down the mana cost reduction and gust value or whatever was necessary to balance it.
On a different note, I’d also like to see them add CJL mechanics to SooM builds. You do next to nothing damage wise when you give up all the melee talents and CJL seems like it would fit into a SooM build. I’ve suggested a lot in the past but I think adding it to Unison so it cleaves and also adding CJL to Font of Life as a TFT reset would make sense. Adding a damage buff option to TFT for CJL would also be nice instead of just the weak knockback.
Honestly, I think the CJL could be a really good way to go about it. Think if they gave MW some sort of casted no cd dps ability and while channeling JL it would make the spell insta cast just like Viv with SooM. Would keep the dps simple for it but would keep with the style of standing back and channeling
and maybe stances are the way we solve the issue. Jade Dragon stance and Red Crane Stance. Each giving a much weaker passive version of their big cd’s. Then when it’s time to pump out the heals, you Invoke the Dragon or Crane depending on which stance you’re in and get the full blown healing cd effects. Each stance could also affect how mastery works so that if we tweak mastery it doesn’t somehow get better for one spec just by making it useable for the other.