The terrible maths of the M+ loot nerfs

[Opalunaiya-bleeding-hollow]

@Jae-jaedenar

Why are you trolling so hard here?

Yet another poster who appears to think they are on a mission from God.

[Judygemstone-area-52]

They should cap mythic raid gear in dungeons to 1/6 heroic and no higher. Mythic raiders shouldn’t be able to come into M+ and dominate all other M+ players.

[Yuriie-stormrage]

I was pretty hyped for this expansion but week after week with all those changes for m+/raid/etc i’m getting less and lessexcited.

Blizz is making changes that almost nobody asked.

[Froomstbolt-stormrage]

@Zenbéar-area-52

Actually, mythic gearing is not just for ego. It provides natural nerf to bosses over time.

But that’s an ouroboros. They need to aoft nerf mythic so mythic raiders have access to more power, and they get more power so they can get access to more power, etc. If mythic is purely coametic and offered no power at all, they can just leave the tuning nutty, since there is no ‘need’ to get to later bosses for power.

All that being said, that’s just theoretical talk. I don’t think they should take power reqards aqay from mythic raiding.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Kromkosh-thrall

Actual casuals” don’t do mythic raids.

Actually we do.

Casual isn’t based on people’s lack of skill or level of play.

That’s just you coping.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Judygemstone-area-52

They should cap mythic raid gear in dungeons to 1/6 heroic and no higher. Mythic raiders shouldn’t be able to come into M+ and dominate all other M+ players.

They don’t.

Are you so out of touch you think mplus players aren’t also in myth track gear?

[Abendroth-zuljin (Abendroth)]

No they’re not. 1/6 is the maximum you can get from m+, in what world is 6/6 required to do the things that drop 1/6?

And if you mean mythic raid, the raid can drop much higher than 1/6 including 6/6, making this whole point moot.

[Primalmatter-stormrage (Primalmatter)]

Depends. Time wise they sure do though those that do tend to be veteran raiders. You argue they a minority of a minority but they do exist

[Froomstbolt-stormrage]

@Shadybolt-thrall

Since it effectively means that they aren’t changing how M+ loot is handled at all come TWW.

They very much are, though. In DF we had crafted gear that was very close to being on par with mythic raid gear, but down a few ilvls. In TWW that crafted gear is going to be down 13 ilvls, it’s a significant power loss for M+ players who relied on the crafted gear to supplement bad vault RNG.

[Primalmatter-stormrage (Primalmatter)]

@Zoumz-zuljin

If they added more to keep up with the changes then it would defeat the purpose of slowing it down. I associate slowing down current gear progression as a better progression as gear progression stopped way too soon in DF (which means you stop getting stronger very early and that isn’t that fun for me). Yes overall it does add to the grindyness, but it also scales higher than before so that’s also reasonable.

I think the friction comes from it affecting people it shouldn’t. I recall you asking me about whelping crests. I didn’t know what they were as to me they only exist to unlock transmog colors.

The issue with the mythic plus change is it hits people who difficulty wise are already finished progression. They are already farming tens. There isn’t anything reward wise to push too. All it does is disrupt their ability to play alts or engage in other end game activities like pvp.

If the goal is to draw out gearing it strikes me as counter productive to focus on the players without anything more challenging to gear to.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Froomstbolt-stormrage

They very much are, though. In DF we had crafted gear that was very close to being on par with mythic raid gear, but down a few ilvls. In TWW that crafted gear is going to be down 13 ilvls, it’s a significant power loss for M+ players who relied on the crafted gear to supplement bad vault RNG.

All you said here boils down to this:
“In DF we couldn’t upgrade our gear so much, now we can.”

That’s the complaint. So no, it isn’t a real complaint.

[Judygemstone-area-52]

Big time woooosh for you bruh. I am saying Mythic Raiders shouldn’t have a massive gear advantage over M+ players.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Froomstbolt-stormrage

@Shadybolt-thrall

Since it effectively means that they aren’t changing how M+ loot is handled at all come TWW.

They very much are, though. In DF we had crafted gear that was very close to being on par with mythic raid gear, but down a few ilvls. In TWW that crafted gear is going to be down 13 ilvls, it’s a significant power loss for M+ players who relied on the crafted gear to supplement bad vault RNG.

They already changed it back to 3 item levels under max (so 5/6 mythic).

Crafted Gear Will Cap at 636 Item Level in War Within

[Zenbéar-area-52]

The problem would be that mythic raiding would then become either too easy or too hard, depending on the tuning.

With the current model, top guilds can get CE quickly. And more “average” guilds can also potentially get CE by the end of the tier, thanks to the indirect nerfs (players becoming fully mythic geared) and direct nerfs to bosses.

To clarify, I think current raiding model can use major updates. But, I don’t think getting rid of mythic gear is it.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Judygemstone-area-52

Big time woooosh for you bruh. I am saying Mythic Raiders shouldn’t have a massive gear advantage over M+ players.

Both sides end up in mostly mythic track gear so they don’t.

The gotcha I think is that someone pushing high keys and never raiding is pretty common while something raiding mythic and not also doing mythic+ flat doesn’t exist.

[Tyrmaull-mankrik]

Show us how intelligent you are some more. Content they enjoy is mythic plus. Genius level iq …

[Bonusbronze-sargeras]

@Sacromonk-frostmourne

@Zoumz-zuljin

I don’t think it’s better for most players to be done early with gear.

Why not? I want an actual reason, not just “because I prefer it”, which is all you have been able to offer so far.

It gives them flexibility to tune things around lower ilvl.

For example outgoing damage in M+ can be lowered at its baseline if ilvl is lower longer.

Then for raid look no further than Tindral and Fyrakk for needing players to have more ilvl to gain over time so it nerfs the raid. I don’t think anyone wants to see the wall of waiting for blizz to nerf bosses repeatedly ever again.

I think slower gearing will help the PVE game overall. Even if I don’t find gearing satisfying or fulfilling.

[Froomstbolt-stormrage]

@Argorwal-ysera

They already changed it back to 3 item levels under max (so 5/6 mythic).

Oh word, I didn’t know that. Thanks for letting me know.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Bonusbronze-sargeras

@Sacromonk-frostmourne

@Zoumz-zuljin

I don’t think it’s better for most players to be done early with gear.

Why not? I want an actual reason, not just “because I prefer it”, which is all you have been able to offer so far.

It gives them flexibility to tune things around lower ilvl.

For example outgoing damage in M+ can be lowered at its baseline if ilvl is lower longer.

Then for raid look no further than Tindral and Fyrakk for needing players to have more ilvl to gain over time so it nerfs the raid. I don’t think anyone wants to see the wall of waiting for blizz to nerf bosses repeatedly ever again.

I think slower gearing will help the PVE game overall. Even if I don’t find gearing satisfying or fulfilling.

I think something not getting enough chatter with regard to tuning is the crazy ICC style raid buff in TWW that (subject to change) goes up to 40% more damage and healing.

[Zoumz-zuljin (Zoumz)]

18% in the last update starting after a month of s1.