The Sun God, Spoilers for 8.1.5

Fizzwop-wyrmrest-accord · January 15, 2019, 6:12pm

Alright, alright. First, let’s leave the passion of faction v. faction conflict at the door if we can. If it is brought up, please do respectfully. This is purely about the discussion of aesthetics and what could be cool. I’m also going to discuss datamined spoilers about the Battle of Dazar’alor raid, so if you want to experience it for the first time while it’s live, click away click away! Without further ado, I have something for the community to consider.

So, right now we have Tyrande Whisperwind as the Night Warrior. She is the moon in this scenario. She is an insanely powerful force, and the fact she hasn’t completely eradicated the Darkshore resistance feels a bit odd. This is a woman who can without challenge erase a Horde garrison with Belmont at its helm, why is she encountering such stark resistance so early? She’s frankly overpowered, and there’s no direct answer for this on the Horde-side.

Lately, I have been lamenting at how Rastakhan was wasted a little too soon for my taste. This is the God King who was hyped up in the background through Cataclysm and MoP, a man on a golden throne. In the non-canon Role-Playing Game he had several features that captured the imagination, such as his army of highly trained witch doctors standing at his side in every battle. Rastakhan was wasted, Tyrande is too powerful, and some things have grabbed my interest. I have a solution.

It is pretty common knowledge that the Zandalari combine the aesthetics from a number of pyramid-building cultures, primarily the Aztecs in addition to some west African sprinkle thrown in. They also have a few lingering Egyptian inspirations, including the extent of the Loa pantheon as well as mummifying past kings. Another important aspect of this theory is that revered trolls can become Loa on death. Now Rastakhan has some very sun-based iconography, and we can think of two major tales from the religious traditions of Egypt and the Aztec people.

For the Egyptians, a common theme is the Sun God Ra simply getting too old for his own good. In Egypt, it was not uncommon for gods’ bodies to age, and it was an often explored theme, especially when it came to the sun. Ra grew old, and eventually died to shed his mortal form and ascend to become a pure god, losing the senility and weakness of his mortal shape to ride the skies unfettered. Rastakhan isn’t exactly ‘old’, but he was arrogant and lazy. He was once a mighty king, but many great conspiracies were able to cripple him, and eventually killed Rezan. With 8.1.5, he faces his greatest loss, death at the hands of invaders. In this case, Ra(stakhan) is dying, and shedding that weakened failed form. This combined with the lessons he’s learned in Dazar’alor, he’s humbled and reinvigorated. If Rastakhan’s death allows him to become a Loa, as he is admired by his kingdom, he could be an answer to Tyrande’s power that keeps things balanced.

In Aztec myth-this is where it gets really fun- the sun god Huitzilopochtli has the sacred task to do constant battle with the Moon and the Stars to prevent them from devouring him and setting upon the world and devouring it. It’s not a perfect analog, but here we have a being of the Sun doing eternal battle against a being of the Moon. Tyrande has no mercy left in her heart, she says as much. Her victory would be the believable extinction of her foes, the orcs, the forsaken, the Zandalari. I won’t argue whether that’s a good thing, too much wank material there, but we know that it’s not likely to happen anytime soon. So we have a moon that seeks to destroy, and a sun that is responsible to fight the moon.

Basically, let Rastakhan step up as a brand new Loa of the Sun, let his army of witch doctors follow him on a cosmic campaign as he supports our battle against Tyrande. To be fair, you could allow the Alliance to control Ashenvale/Stonetalon to mix things up and even out the territory count as well as put the threat on much more interesting grounds. Just killing a bunch of Forsaken is hardly the most complex moment in the story, so Rastakhan meeting her in say, the Barrens, could be -amazing- for cinematic value. Just my thoughts.

Adelbrand-wyrmrest-accord · January 15, 2019, 8:12pm

I love it. It could provide some further lore justification for Zandalari Paladins, and maybe make them feel more linked to the other Horde Paladins. (An’she - Rastakhan - Belore.)

Enekie-wyrmrest-accord · January 15, 2019, 8:33pm

I’ll try to phrase this as politely as I can, given the request. Apologies if it comes off as brusque.

I feel like this choice more or less negates the concept of consequences for the Horde, which is a trope Blizzard already struggles with.

The Undercity was lost, but done so mostly on Sylvanas’ terms and was considered not nearly as devastating as the loss of Teldrassil was to the Alliance. Since then, there have been a few black eyes and bloody noses, but the Horde hasn’t really suffered much as a result of the war (outside the ham-handed story, but that’s a burden on all of us).

Rastakhan is the first major loss the Horde suffers. The Night Warrior is the first major gain the Alliance makes. It feels kind of pointless to nullify that immediately by elevating Rastakhan to a god.

I suppose I question what’s wrong with having the Horde on the backfoot for awhile?

Fizzwop-wyrmrest-accord · January 15, 2019, 10:17pm

Oh, not at all! In fact that is perfectly civil. I don’t mind the Horde being on the backfoot, but in particular I just have a rather strong love for Rastakhan.

Here’s the problem, right now Tyrande is an immortal and unstoppable goddess of war and destruction with the stated purpose of no mercy no longer. What has she really done? She took down Belmont, who we later rescue, and then is stalled out in Darkshore. The Alliance have really cool toys, but they don’t get to really unleash and use them because if Tyrande was allowed to go free, well, orcs would be extinct, open and shut. It’s not particularly fun for either side for this to be the constant back and forth.

Alliance are stuttering out because they can’t win -too- hard or the story ends, the Horde only survives because the Alliance’s super massive tools have no counter. Realistically, the presence of the Vindicaar is downplayed because using it would be broken. Jaina is the most powerful mortal mage of the day, Malfurion is a Demigod in his own right, meanwhile the most powerful in the Horde (Saurfang, namely) are just really good at hitting stuff hard. It’s a huge imbalance which no one can really enjoy.

There’s nothing wrong with the Horde being on the backfoot, by all means, let it be so! This is a war where the Alliance is playing softball and it negates the purpose of the war at all. The Horde at the moment believe that Alliance victory could mean extinction, which is why even moderate Horde are inclined to stay in line. We know, metaphysically, this is just not the case. I say let the Alliance off the chain, let them have a few massacres under their belt, and crush the head for the bruised heel as the old metaphor goes.

We just need for there to be some balance of powers that makes the gap a little less obscene. Alliance’s most powerful is in essence, the Messiah of War, and the Horde’s most powerful is really an above-average warrior or perhaps a rather competent time mage in Thalryssa’s case. So I say let the Alliance sew a little more destruction, they sorely need it. I just still believe that throwing down Rastakhan as the sacrificial lamb is wasteful of his character. That is an entirely subjective take, of course. I just love the character myself.

I’d be ok with them starting to clean house of more of the Horde’s forward strongholds, especially ones that realistically are unused and would allow some good hoorah moments for the Alliance without taking away major-traffic areas.

In all, yes, Horde can be on the backfoot. That would be just fine with me. I just have such a love for Rastakhan, and think he could provide an answer to the bizarre power balance issues in the WoW faction hero ensemble.

Enekie-wyrmrest-accord · January 15, 2019, 10:51pm

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly don’t think there needs to be a balance.

The story of WoW is stuck in an endless cycle of Horde aggression and Alliance passiveness. It would be interesting and exciting for the Horde to actually be an endangered species for once, being forced to carry out subterfuge missions and more subtle operations because an Alliance victory is assured. The Horde, thus far, have enjoyed more or less uncontested victories and never suffered a truly crippling defeat, while the Alliance have had several.

Rastakhan returning as a powerless ghost who provides an advisory role for a Horde ill-prepared to face an enemy they cannot hope to defeat would offer way more story potential than the tired trope of “Alliance gets a weapon, Horde gets a weapon to defeat the weapon” being recycled over and over.

Fizzwop-wyrmrest-accord · January 15, 2019, 10:56pm

Then we are at disagreement, and that’s all well and good.

Sorry, that reply was severely lack luster. Got a bit distracted, and these new forums made me think this was a lot more casual. They still have the lengthy wait between replies which is less than fortunate.

But I do deeply appreciate your thoughts! I may disagree with them but they’re perfectly acceptable, and I like to think I’ll take away something meaningful from it nonetheless. Thanks for stopping by and being so civil

Miko-wyrmrest-accord · January 16, 2019, 12:03am

I dunno if losing Rastakhan is a consequence for the Horde anyway… its about on the level as the alliance losing Taelia or Katherine Proudmoore or something.

Yeah, he is sorta cool, but it isn’t like he is some long-standing hero of the Horde.

Ruyn-wyrmrest-accord · January 16, 2019, 12:04am

I like Rastakhan. I don’t like god-tier characters. I never liked Tyrande, I like her even less now that she’s the Night Warrior.

I would love for one side to completely crush the other. Horde or Alliance. I honestly don’t care which. I will always back the Horde, but if the Alliance brought us to ruin I’d still be okay with that (maybe even like it more than an outright Horde total victory) because it would make for great story!

I also feel like it would be fantastic justification for Horde aggression against Alliance. No more moral debate, we’re fighting for survival now. We can and -should- do whatever it takes to survive. But then most of my characters enjoy the violence.

But that wont happen, at least I don’t think it will. This is a MMO first and that means Lore comes second… So there has to be some kind of parity between the factions.

Blizzard writes themselves into a corner by giving the Alliance stable full of super powered justice pals because they can never exercise those god-tier abilities. At least not in a way that matters. So when those pesky Hordies and their Scrappy Warchief get away, yet again, the Alliance Super Buddies just seem incompetent. And so does the Blizzard writing team.

Because we all know the truth… IF Jaina, Malfurion, and Tyrande did get together and smite the Horde into the dirt with their righteous fury half the games players would raise hell.

Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord · January 16, 2019, 4:51am

I largely agree with this post but there’s something that ruffles my tailfeathers that I need to point out.