The storycrafting conundrum

When Chris Metzen came back into the fold, he mentioned his surprise with how the story of warcraft is now a lot more democratized, that is, many creative hands shape it to be the way it is. At first glance, this might sound like a good thing - more people offering their input should improve the quality, right? Right?

Full disclosure: I’m not one of the people who hate the game (and keep playing for some reason). I like WoW, and I don’t have as many problems with the current story as your average forum dweller. However, it is clear to me some things have changed under the hood and I’d be remiss not to discuss the issues that might come out of it in the long run.

I believe most of us know that Danuser’s leadership was controversial, with many questionable narrative decisions. Naturally, the problem didn’t start there, but it’s a valid example of how things used to go: the head of story controlled every aspect of the narrative (or at least held too much power). This system resulted in the poor performance of BFA and Shadowlands, as recent examples. Add to that the infamous lawsuit and the bad press Blizzard got around that time.

With that in mind, stands to reason that if you want to solve the problem quickly before your stocks get Teldrassil’d, you must reconfigure how the story is crafted (you need to fix every team of course but I’m focusing on the narrative team here). So now we have -ahem- a council making the story, so to say, because everything is discussed and democratized (I’m going out on a limb here and assuming they vote/discuss some story aspects and character moments to reach an agreement). That’s great! You successfully made sure there will no longer be a Danuser to hijack the narrative and write whatever nonsense they please.

But there is a problem that stems from this change that I haven’t seen adressed by the current story criticism. People focus on culture war buzzwords and ragebait (par for the course these days, I guess), but not on this fundamental aspect of the storycrafting: it’s a collective effort.

The bad side of the story being discussed by multiple people with equal-ish decison powers between them, is that we get an effect that reminds me of what Downs described in his Economic Theory of Democracy while discussing voter preference distribuition. The different visions the decision-makers have for the story clash and to get to a consensus they need to moderate their takes so it gets support from their peers. This is, in my mind, the cause of the “defanging” effect many people are complaining about - that WoW’s story feels more sanitized and bland than it used to.

That brings us to the question I don’t have the answer for: what is better? An auteur dictating a narrative according to their vision - wich can be good or can be Shadowlands - or a group effort that, in order to agree on something that pleases the majority of the team, strip the story of a single vision and might be percieved as bland?

You can’t please wow players - we’ll always find something to complain about (often happens when we get what we asked for and then realize we don’t want it actually) - but what would you do to fix this? Personally I don’t think there is a perfect solution. There is a fair bit of tradeoff however you want to go about this and if it means we don’t get another Jailer I’ll gladly eat up a less gritty story.

But, please, can we go back to pre-rendered cinematics (the normal ones not the cgi ones)? I know in-game cutscenes are cheaper but the abundance of cinematics in BFA was so nice I wish we kept that an evergreen tradition.

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The problem is not the system per se.

The problem is who is in the system.

Previously the Dev Team was divided into two large primary factions

  • the people who wanted to go back to WC1/2 with an Evil Horde and a Good Alliance
  • the people who wanted Heroic Horde and Heroic Alliance

With the WC1/2 people having been the majority or at least the most powerful of the dev team at many turns

Now, it appears the devs have been 100% purged of the WC1/2 people and are now divided between

  • people who value the Alliance the most
  • people who value the Horde the most

And sadly it appears that it is the Alliance Preference devs who have the most power or the majority right now, with everytime a dev doing something with the Horde that we like, eg the Koshorg heritage quest, eg the Sylvanas Banshee outfit and the Forsaken slime horses with Cult of Forgotten Shadow worldbuilding, they announce they’re gone a few months later. And oddly enough, it’s not them being fired.

So the issue here is, where are the Devs who value the Horde and are anti-WC1/2 Evil Horde?

Which, part and parcel, I feel is due to a general ignorance among US people regarding the very cultures the Horde is based upon. At the end of the day, if you don’t find Aztecs and Incas and Yorubas and etc cool, you won’t find the Trolls with their Pyramids and Loas cool. If you don’t value North Amerindian peoples, you won’t find Tauren cool with their feathered headdresses and shamanistic beliefs. If you don’t like Southern Gothic and 20th Century Gore Horror and Horror Comedy, you won’t value the Forsaken.

To wit: all Forsaken quests for a while now precisely undermine the basis of the Forsaken. The devs do not value the Forsaken for the reason the playerbase Forsaken players value the Forsaken.

The other issue is the lack of foresight. Anyone with two functional neurons would’ve been able to generate the thought way back in LEGION that the Cosmic Force Power Rangers were Alliance heavy. Back then many content creators and many players even on this forum said we were being crazy. And look where we are now.

Nobody has ever written an original thought. Writing is predictable. And this reifies the issue again: if you don’t value the Horde, you won’t consider including the Horde in your plots.

Could they have built up Natalie Seline, also ex wielder of Xalatath who is also alive, since Legion over ten years ago to have her be the main protagonist right now? Have Necromantic Shadow Zombies fight the Shadow Mummies? Yes.

Could they have included Trolls, maybe developed an Anti Void Shadow Hunter squad, maybe reveal that Zando, the first mortal of Azeroth tricked by Xalatath to start the Troll Aqir War, was a Shadow Loa? Yes.

Could they have developed the Shadowmoon on Azeroth between the fel Shadowmoon of MU and the void Shadowmoon of AU? Maybe reveal Xalatath also somehow involved in the Dark Star? Maybe reveal Xalatath visited the Arrakoa during the Apexis War? Yes.

But they chose not to. Because you write what you value.

The third problem is the lack of purview. There is no Lore Bible at Blizzard. Multiple devs and April Copeland herself has said that is false. And the devs cannot be vetoed by Story. And not all Devs consult story. Form follows Function. So long as Blizzard allows devs to produce without editorial purview, the previous two issues will keep happening.

Tldr

  • the problem is not the structure
  • first problem is that the Devs in majority or at least the Devs with the most power appear to be Alliance mains with every Dev who makes Horde content we like leaving (eg Kosharg dev)
  • second problem is lack of foresight in the writing
  • third problem is lack of editorial purview of Story against Devs with a story team that is cultured and educated and competent
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I will only add that they seem to think that “Heroic” Horde = being depressed and moping a lot like Saurfang and Thrall, rather than facing down an army to save your people like Ga’nar.

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Which is part and parcel with the political dispositions of the devs.

e.g. in Dragonflight, when Alexstrasza insisted “we are giving you the Drakonids rights despite your militant uprising, not because of it” even though the Drakonids were literally an inferior slave caste and Alexstrasza refused to give them political rights for tens of thousands of years prior lol

and pair that with Zandalar vs Kul Tiran worldbuilding or even the Stormwind worldbuilding in the heritage quest

i.e. somehow Anduin, during the fourth world war and in the midst of a cosmic necromantic apocalypse, managed to make Stormwind into a feudal paradise with no inequality, where the red-bandana freedom fighter leader opened a soup kitchen with the hereditary aristocrat (which, mind you, they thankfully walked back once the community made them realize how thorough STUPID that was)

and also the issue with how Kul Tiras vs Zandalar is framed: by the end of BFA, all of Kul Tiras is unified under a single Statocratic system once more, with Thornspeakers integrated into Kul Tiran society, etc, generally speaking all “inequality” resolved, whereas in Zandalar by the end of BFA, Talanji does NOT have control of the whole island, the Zanchul Council includes Tortollans but excludes Sethrak and the political exiles left to die in an open air prison, where teh only narrative implication of political integration of the Voldun/Zul’ahjini exiles is the fact the undead pirates of the area walk around Orgrimmar; and lets not forget that Kul Tiran aristocracy is framed as a non-issue but Zandalari aristoracy is framed as this egregious thing

The entire narrative is aggressively western liberal, wherein western class hierarchies are fine and can be resolved with insufferable centrism, while non-western class hierarchies are unforgiveable and inherently prone to political instability

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Imo it’s already a bad idea on paper. Too many cooks spoil the broth. It always takes someone who has the final say and sets the tone. This is especially important for quality control. We don’t need bad ripoffs of Final Fantasy, The Dragon Prince, Endgame, or storylines with significant logic flaws and continuity errors, like Dalaran or Stromgarde. It takes someone who understands the tone and setting of Warcraft and can also say no to BS ideas.

Having Metzen back on the team is ideal because (at least that’s what is said) a large part of the worldbuilding comes from him. He knows what the essence of Warcraft is - and very importantly, he knows what’s cool. All power to him.

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I agree with most of your points, but I would ask for a quick clarification, if possible. Does something need to be original and unpredictable in order to be considered good writing? For example, if Blizzard were to introduce a Horde themed character and set them on a heroes journey type story (as seen in Star Wars, Harry Potter, Naruto, etc.) does that automatically make it bad?

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No. If all writing is predictable, which it is, how does that make it bad? Where did I say that, even vaguely?

The issue is rather Blizzard taking Horde characters and stripping them of their heritage, culture, and meaning that is the mechanism by which players are attached to this world (see: Castronova’s magic circle thesis).

see:

  • Ebonhorn being stripped of ten thousand years of Tauren identity in his elevation as an Aspect in the narrative (zero interactions with Baine, Mayla, Tauren generally, shamanism which should be relevant in the ELEMENTAL ASPECT and with Vyranoth, etc)
  • Calia being shoved down our throats while dismissing all five core themes of the Forsaken (Traditional Horror Folklore, Victorian Penny Dreadfuls, 20th Century Zombie Media, Southern Gothic Literature, and Horror Comedy)
  • The entire father of cosmic necromancy being introduced and being the primum causa behind the Forsaken’s existence and refusing to do anything there
  • Thrall’s only narrative in the past 15 years being Elemental Dysfunction (Metzen needs either therapy or an urologist given that is his OC/self insert)
  • etc etc etc

It is precisely Blizzard insisting on undermining their own themes and motifs for the Horde that is part of the “first problem” I identify

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You didn’t, I was just asking the question for my own curiosity.

I agree this is a major issue Blizzard has had and still does when writing expansions. Sadly this seems to have been the case for quite some time now. I would argue that MoP was the last time Horde heritage, culture, and meaning was done well and not for the entire expansion. There have been exceptions in most expansions (aside from Shadowlands which in my opinion was horrible for all of the factions) but as a general rule the Horde has been progressively sidelined, altered, or irrelevant to the overall story. Speaking as an Alliance main I would add that I do not think things are much better for my chosen faction but that does not invalidate that Horde fans have had little to get invested in for some time.

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Worgen and Draenei in particular suffer similar problems imo. The former doesn’t even hint at werewolf fantasy any longer, while the latter has largely just existed as Enemy of the Burning Legion faction.

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No, but you have to respect the tools to use them well and to know when to not use them.

The “heroes journey”, which isn’t as universal as its creator would like to claim, is ultimately just a collection of story beats that many treat as if it was something magical that makes everything better.

Meanwhile, it’s a #2 philips screwdriver and that screw your putting in… it’s hex. Don’t worry I’m sure you can hack it together instead of, oh reaching for the hex driver because this philips is your favorite.

To be clear, not an attack on you.

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Two of the biggest problems with WoW’s storytelling can be summed up as follows; “too many cooks spoil the broth” and warring fandoms. Too many people trying to pull the story in different directions (why does an expansion need THREE DIRECTORS?) dilutes it for everyone.

A prime example is Sylvanas’ story, which suffered from being a tug of war between an indecisive hyper-fanboy dev who loved her and an arrogant x offender dev who hated her. The former obsessed with his darling (throwing characters under the bus to make her look good; Vol’jin, Genn, Alleria, Bolvar) and the latter obsessed with making the setting and company his little power fantasy (throwing female characters under the bus because of his lust; Yrel, Jaina, Ysera, Xe’ra, Helya, Delaryn…)

The current situation is most of those hyper-fans and (hopefully) all the toxic x offenders are no longer in the company, so their taint can be excised from the story, but it’s still a tall order to clean up their mess even with Metzen back at the helm.

The Horde has been written lately in such an uncharacteristic way.

I remember questing in Cataclysm and loving Lilian Voss’s character. The storyline for an early leveling zone was absolutely incredible. I remember not even believing how good it was and reading everything.

Then they changed her from a more vengeful pragmatist into a Stormwind Human #3. I cringed so much during the Emerald Dream questline with her and Shandris. And some more cringe in the Azj-Kahet questline. It’s like they asked the voice actors, “how do you want your character to be?” and they made them into these fuzzy warm archetypes that do not fit the style or original personalities at all. Very inauthentic to the point where it pulls me out of the immersion of the story.

The Horde doesn’t need COUNCILS by the way. It’s ridiculous to me given the culture of the Horde firstly. But also because of the setting as well. We’re supposed to be in a medieval/steampunk fantasy with magical/sci-fi elements. The Horde is way cooler with a WARCHIEF. The Undead Forsaken were cooler when they were led by the Dark Lady. There can be a main leader and a sort of “round table” (for lack of a better term) of advisor characters underneath them. But making the world into a democracy feels like the writers are inserting too much of the real world into the game and it feels discordant. We need strong characters that get things done who lead again. Not people holding hands in a “council”.

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Historically, one of their largest issues has been the nature of how the game was set up. Each expansion might as well of happened in a parallel universe, with how little each informed the others. They were all their own little boxes, and once that box is full, we put it on the shelf and mostly ignore it. That was fine for a couple of expansions, but as the source RTS material ran thin they began to get increasingly disjointed.

They are a bottom up (democratic) company instead of a top down one largely due to the abuses that happened. And that is fine; it can produce some really great side quests when you let your team go wild. The issue is with the core story line. That needs a single voice directing it—The ship needs a defined shape, but it is fine if the interior decorators go wild with paint colors as it were.

That said, it at times for sure feels like the writers do not know how to write a character or culture, so they just ask themselves what they as a modern Californian with likely highly liberal inclinations and American biases, would do and go with that. I feel for the horde the team just does not, and really has never known what to do with them. I would also say the same of the Alliance often. To the Horde’s free spirited scrappy-ness, the Alliance should be stiflingly conformist, arrogant and smothering in their holier-than-thou behavior… but instead they are weirdly open minded and progressive to the point of it being kind of silly.

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Still laughing how in the other thread some of the usual Alliance culprits clutched their pearls at me for daring to suggest the feudal hereditary monarchy with widespread brutal inequality based on early modern western europe would be a little homophobic should Anduin be gay and cause a crisis of succession.

Because God forbid any aspect of Alliance society be even slightly negative. Flaws are only for Horde races!

But that’s the thing. You ask some of the people around here what should the Alliance Flaws be then, what cultural flaws should they have, if it’s not racism or classism or homophobia and they’ll never answer you. Baine/Tauren having anti-Centaur racism is fine of course. Blood elves being classist to the Trolls is fine too. And I’ve regularly seen it suggested Trolls and Orcs should be homophobic.

But the Alliance? No no no, tut tut.

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Objectively-speaking, The War Within is well-written. The storylines make sense, the characters make sense, the villain makes sense and is serviceable, and the lore/world-building is quintessential Warcraft (Humans, Dwarves, monsters). As such, by default, The War Within is better than BfA, Shadowlands, and Dragonflight.

The problem is fans, and especially players of a certain subset, who have no patience. They do not understand this is a trilogy and so they complain as soon as their favorite character doesn’t get some spotlight. The War Within is just the first chapter of a trilogy, it did its job wonderfully in setting up things that will come into play later in the saga, especially as pertaining to the Sword, the Rootlands, and, last but not least, Thrall’s little elemental problem.

I can’t wait to see what the team will write for Midnight now that Metzen is fully there.

Opinion noted…

A properly written trilogy should be three books with an A plot and a B plot… at the least. The A plot will be the core plot of the book, the B plot will be the core of the trilogy.

In the first book it should be subtle a simple layering in of something larger is going on and should end with a nice satisfying climax to the book plots with some foreshadowing to the future but nothing that will make the book feel incomplete.

The second book, often the hardest to pull off, should begin to bring in the B plot as a more serious situation. The heroes, maybe the same ones from the first book, though it can be done with new ones, should begin to realize they aren’t seeing the whole picture. The climax of this book is intended to be a mixed bag. You get to feel good about it nicely tying up the book plot while getting to worry about what you now know is a much bigger problem lurking on the horizon… the foreshadowing might even be the villain getting exactly what they needed perhaps even with the aid of the heroes.

The third book… is where the trilogy plot gets front and center status while the book plot largely becomes about finishing character arcs or closing plot holes… if done well everyone will be happy. If not… well in books it kills sales and potentially ends careers. Here… it’s just Shadowlands.

Cute dig at the end. Not that I’m surprised as there wasn’t a plot line related to it. It was barely even a foot note—in fact I don’t remember an in game mention of it this expansion.

Problem is the War Within’s expansion plot—whatever that was—wasn’t very satisfying… Objectively speaking.

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There are no egregious plot holes, retcons, or character inconsistencies in The War Within. So, it is written well. Pretty simple.

Just because you don’t like Anduin or Alleria or would like “Insert Character X” to be in the spotlight doesn’t make their character writing low quality.

The A plot will be the core plot of the book, the B plot will be the core of the trilogy.

The A plot of The War Within = Defending the peoples of Khaz Algar from the Nerubians and freeing the Nerubians from Xal’atath’s control.

The B plot of The War Within and the overarching plot of the Worldsoul Saga = Stopping whatever Xal’atath is planning to do with the Dark Heart (and no, a villain motivations don’t have to be revealed straight away in the first chapter).

Blizzard was pretty clear since the beginning that Xal’atath and the Dark Heart would be the overarching threads of the trilogy.

wasn’t very satisfying… Objectively speaking.

The Nerubians were freed from Xal’atath’s influence. The survivors can rebuild the City of Threads as a better nation. Peace is returning to Khaz Algar.

The Goblin Cartels were freed from Gallywix’s tyranny. The survivors can rebuild Undermine as a better nation. Peace is returning to the Goblin Cartels.

And hope once again blossoms for K’aresh as well.

These are fulfilling conclusions to storylines.

Just say you don’t care about Khaz Algar, Goblins, or the K’areshi. I don’t care about Goblins or the K’areshi either, but I’m not going to pretend like their storylines didn’t get fulfilling conclusions when that’s factually wrong.

Wrong

A Plot is the through line: ie the xalatath / alleria (alliance) crap

B Plot are the various usually zone specific plots:

  • Magni turning back human with family drama with Moira and Dagran (alliance)
  • anduin angst with Faerin (alliance)
  • nerubian political crisis
  • goblin political crisis (only Gazlowe as Horde rep because of stupid lore decisions)
  • Karesh world soul / Kareshi political crisis (no Horde rep but a lot of void elf alliance drama)

There is a clear inequality in who gets to be included

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Anduin’s story arc has absolutely nothing to do with the Alliance. Reminder that it was your beloved zombie queen who turned him into a slave with Kingsmourne. This plotline involves the Horde just as much as the Alliance.

It’s almost like Neutral storylines are not automatically Faction storylines just because it’s “insert race X” starring in it. Like Blizzard has been telling you for one year and counting.

The Magni story is balanced by Gazlowe as you yourself acknowledged.

I really think it’s less of an issue who is specifically getting the spotlight and more so that the writers have no idea what the Horde means anymore and write them terribly.

I think that the Horde players psychologically just hope if they write more Horde characters into the storyline, magically they’ll remember how to write Horde personalities and culture again. But square peg round hole and all that. They need to really evaluate their writing first.

I’ll never forget when Orc Priests were introduced and the devs were making Orcs into almost these Alliance-like Church of the Holy Light facsimiles.

Talk about out of touch with the Horde.

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