You’re too lazy to read any of the posts so I’ll tell you the two major differences between the cash shops:
FF is in a MUCH better state that wow right now. FF has fostered a goodwill with it’s players so they’re (for the most part and me included) are much more tolerant of a cash shop
Wow sells pay to win on their store.
wheres that mr crabs gif of him saying money!
so rules for thee but not for me?
What are you talking about?
It’s not like even when Ion does interact with the community it’s worth anyones time. He just answers in roundabout lawyer talk for almost every situation.
He chimed in on a few times over BFA and they were all a massive waste of time and I think did more harm to his image than good. There is only so many times the playerbase case hear “yes we hear your feedback and we disagree”.
“We just don’t want you playing demonology”
I miss when Blizzard didn’t let you post videos in threads.
Also its weird when people complain about WOW but constantly make videos about it to collect their 10 dollars from youtube…
Is this post real? Please tell me it’s just a bait post.
It is not only real it is completely, factually correct.
But we all know that Blizzard nuked their dedicated CS staff years ago.
It’s ironic to tell me i’m the one who is thinking black and white here, when really my stance is pretty nuanced. As i said before, MTX has no place in premium priced games like WoW and so on. Unless the game is actually F2P. And plus, you keep on saying that, as if me not taking in the subjective majority opinion as objective evidence on whether the MTX is fine or not isn’t good thing.
“But i never sai–” 
Me and a lot of other people’s problem with the MTX in both games, has nothing to do with majority’s perspective, something which that can be changed at a dime or overtime, that it makes it wholly unreliable to go by. Were more directly focused on the idea that is the same between the two. If you really want to discuss the differences between the two, that’s fine, but this doesn’t take away that the idea those two games employ aren’t that different and that being is… They both have MTX and their both premium priced games.
Ask yourself this, do you love or hate the idea of MTX? If you love or hate them, why exactly you allow game quality to get in away of you loving or hating that idea in the other game then?..
Really? I mean i kind of have to 1/4 disagree, because what about F2P? 
Because it is. And it’s not just on MTX, especially since regarding this topic matter…
And yes, we get it, context matters, and there’s more positions to take then 2, alright. fine. But if were going to go along with that, i don’t see why you two are surprised i call your attempt of bringing in nuance questionable in this context.
Because it doesn’t really change what MTX does, or is. Unless he takes them out because of that nice treatment.
When your (generally speaking) talking about Microtransactions in a game, you don’t usually bring up game quality as a justification of why it’s (only) bad here, or give it a pass because it’s good.
With that said though, the reverse of that situation is often used for a reason why the game is good or bad.
Oh don’t worry, i expect people to be hypocritical or take an issue with me at a personal level, far before i expect people to understand, or even agree with me. 
And it’s a darn shame. 
I honestly wouldn’t worry about that too much really.
There it is. There’s your black and white stance.
No, we’re not talking about “everyone” here, I’m talking about you and me. Since we can’t speak for anyone but ourselves, you’ve taken the stance that MTX should not be in a premium priced game at all and under no circumstances. Agreed so far?
Yes, I fully understand what you’re saying here. I’m saying your stance and “a lot of other people’s problem with the MTX in both games” people are taking an ALL good or ALL bad type of approach. We’re not comparing wow’s (premium priced game) cash shop to Fortnite’s (ftp game) cash shop, nor FF’s (premium priced game) cash shop to Rocket League’s (ftp game) cash shop. We’re comparing apples to apples here. Wow (premium priced game) cash shop vs FF (premium priced game) cash shop. I know you don’t agree with either one in the apples to apples comparison. All this to say I understand where you’re coming from.
That’s where my opinion comes into play. I’ve been trying to discuss the differences in wow (premium priced game) cash shop vs FF (premium priced game) cash shop. It’s in those differences where I form the opinion of why one is acceptable and one isn’t. You’ve already drawn your line in the sand, neither is acceptable no matter the circumstances. Right?
I don’t like how FF handles glams. I don’t like the glamour dresser. Well since I don’t like the way FF handles something I do a lot should I throw the baby out with the bath water? No. So you can dislike an aspect about a game and in this case the cash shop. No I don’t think the should exist at all but since FF does a lot that I like, I’m willing to give it a pass on the cash shop. You’ve made it clear you don’t agree with that but I do.
Maybe I wasn’t clear but I hope my above explanations will make that clear. I’ve said above that you hate all MTX in premium priced games but don’t really have a problem with them in ftp games.
See black and white stance. All or nothing.
The devil is in the details.
No, not usually. You’re right. I feel it’s worth talking about in this particular case. I don’t know of a single MMO ftp or premium priced that doesn’t have some sort of cash shop. It’s one of those things now that exists and I don’t see it ever going away. It makes too much money. That’s on payers…er…players.
I hope my explanations above sort of clears things up.
No argument here.
Fair point. Maybe it’s in her presentation, something about it really just rubs me the wrong way. Maybe the arrogance in the posts?
sets down coffee and kicks back. Aaaaand let the round about of opinions begin.
And that’s an issue with you on this topic… why?..
I said “Majority”. And by that, i was talking about the people who gave the MTX a pass because they think the game is good.
… I don’t see how your confused on my stance since i’ve said it, but yes, i agree. That is my stance. As i’ve said and will continue to say. MTX has no place in premium priced games.
It comes from the fact that i (not sure about others, though they might be in the same place where i’m coming from) understand and know how MTX work and how it doesn’t make games better at best (Not in premium priced games at least, more on that later) or just ruins them at worst with how they are implemented or focused.
I honestly don’t know why your even bringing that up as somebody honestly did made that comparison. I’ve said “Unless the game is actually f2p, then the MTX will be fine there, because it’s their entry fee”.
So a better comparison would be to compare to another MMO then. Like Guild Wars 2, which it does have MTX, but the game is free to play.
Well fair enough. 
I can tell you right off of my head right now, is FF14 has (at the time i’ve calculated months ago) 3K worth of MTX, and WoW’s 1K worth of MTX. WoW does have Gold buying and level boosting. It’s even to a point where some of the pets aren’t cosmetic.
If the circumstances is the game is free 2 play, then it’s fine.
I hate MTX as much the next reasonable gamer, but even i think it’s excessive to quit an entire game over. Unless the game is so heavily focused and monetized to a point where you have to buy them, like your play to wait or pay to skip the wait mobile games. Dungeon Keeper Mobile rings a bell of this example. The only sort of Gameplay you have is just tapping on a block and wait for the block to be dug out at a max of 24 hours … or you can pay to skip that wait.
There’s other less (or more likely, more) egregious examples, even off mobile, but the point being, if the game is focused heavily on the monetization stuff like that, then i would suggest that. But if your talking about something like WoW, FF14, TF2, Far Cry, CoD, Animal Crossing, The Sims or really any other game we come up, then no.
…I know this is gonna be an apple to zebra comparison, but remember when i’ve bought up Far Cry 6 earlier?.. Say what you will about the game, but i love the franchise and always look forward to playing it, even got it for free when i got my CPU, so that was a nice gift earlier this year.
I am not going to give the MTX in that game a pass just because i love the game. Real life money for fake money in a single-player when i can just cheat engine it in if i really want to, is just plain garbage. 
Infact, with Ubisoft in particular, the less we are reminded about Tom Clancy’s Breakpoint’s shocking handling with it’s MTX overload that makes even thinking about the game pretty much pointless since you can buy yourself to victory, the better we would be as a species. 
/hyperbole
The MTX in those are your entry fee put simply. Their your $60, only without the questionable price tag for questionable contents, and it’s meant to be an enhancement to a game your already enjoying… ideally.
Well that’s because it looks like (to me at least) it’s only there to be used to justify people’s hypocritical behavior, especially the reasons given, rather then try to give nuance to the situation… in this particular context.
It does.
Final fantasy has an ingame store as well but players don’t complain over there because other aspects of the game are fine whereas in wow all the aspects combine to make a poor experience
Apologies for my intrusion into the conversation, but my curiosity got the best of me.
From reading your reply, it’s evident your against MTX in premium priced games, such as… WoW, FF14, etc.
Thus I’m curious to your reply to this question, (devil’s advocate sort of) consider MTX’s a means to compensate for development costs that the base sales didn’t achieve. Meaning whatever the game was estimated to gain revenue wise it didn’t hit for one reason or another.
Coming from that standpoint would you prefer MTX’s in premium priced games? Or the base price, using the US example of 60$ USD be increased?
I’m not going to insert my opinion of MTX’s into this for sake of trying to be impartial / unbias. But I’ve always been a tad curious if players would rather pay more base price rather then have MTX’s in a game.
Going from your stance already, I feel the answer could be either or, which is the reason I ask. 
I sometimes think that Blizz seems a little underhand regarding their store.
For example; announcing the limited access to the Brutosaur would have made the company millions in Token sales, by people desperate not to miss out.
It’s difficult not to think that the Bots are sanctioned by Blizz; there is never a sure attempt at completely ridding WoW of them. And Mythic sales coinciding with the price of a token… why would Blizz do anything about carries when they benefit by people buying Tokens to fund them.
I haven’t played FFXIV for long, but I cannot imagine any of this being allowed there; there is a lot more transparency and integrity between players and Devs in that game.
(I play and love both FF and WoW.) 
You can make up all the excuses you want to justify the cash shop in FF14, doesn’t change the fact that if you hate on WoW for having a cash shop, but give FF14 a pass, then you’re not against a MTX being in a premium cost video game, you just engaging in tribalism and trashing one game and defending another in a hypocritical manner.
As I said before, I’m not a fan of retail wow, and I cannot find a redeeming quality in FF14 that is unique to it (You cannot pay me to play that game).
But it’s hilarious to see people be outright hypocrites then get offended that you call them out on it. Or immediately just default to calling you a fanboy/girl because you dared desecrate their precious FF14. 
Well, to be fair, the decision to give away that much in free game time is certainly admirable. But let’s be honest, it is entirely due to Square Enix not taking the exploding popularity of FF14 into account and managing/updating their infrastructure accordingly. In short, they’ve shown their hand and have proven themselves to be every bit as complacent (albeit in a different way) as Blizzard.
Yohsi P just happens to be a better spokesperson than Ion.
Most players are “bad” players. The big issue here is that most of this game’s reward structure is also locked behind skill-based ladder progression, which you can buy the bulk of.
Professions will never be valuable again, because you can buy that progression with real money. An RPG where you can buy your way to the end of nearly every progression system in the game is a pretty bad vibe IMO.
Even if WoW had more diversity in its content value, if it can be accomplished with gold then it’ll still feel like a mobile game at the end of the day. The hurdles will never feel like they weren’t designed around the monetary skips that the game openly supports. The token is pandora’s box that they will never close.
Now, I don’t mind most microtransactions. I think the shops full of optional cosmetics are perfectly fine. It’s a business, they want money, and as long as I don’t feel like that extra purchase provides an in-game advantage than it’s perfectly fine to exist. After all, WoW’s subscription in 2021 is the same that I’ve been paying for over a decade now.
But when games sell things like EXP boosts or in-game currency then it starts to feel like everything is designed around such features. It likely isn’t, but any tedium met along the way becomes a conspiracy. “Are they making it this difficult to get anywhere just so I will pay more money to get there quicker?”
I mean, what’s the difference between WoW progression and progression in a game like Candy Crush? RMTs for progression sour the experience for me.
FFXIV sells leveling boosts with a bit of gold. I don’t like that so much. But that game’s got so much more going for it right now. I can’t just buy my way through profession climbs. They even crack down on advertised carry services.
FFXIV is preserving the RPG experience. WoW can likely never do that again, save for classic games at the moment. It’s just a shame that classic games will never have anything new to experience.