the fact is right now even with casters being way behind in DPS, they are still way better in PvP
in a raid setting, all the classes come together to turbo-buff everyone and more buffs exist for melee like windfury
casters dont have a windfury
but in PvP warriors and rogues still are bad compared to casters that have all these fun PvP powers like frost nova, blink, ranged dmg, cc, etc
if you buff casters to keep up in DPS, it just overpowers them in PvP even more
i feel the solution to “casters doing less DPS in raids” is to simply turbo-nerf the raids so much that its so easy that no one cares about whos doing how much DPS. youll just get the gear anyway
right now, the raids are STILL HARD. so because the raid is still hard, it means dps still matters, and raids are still trying to min-max and not bring in low DPS classes and they want to stack high damage classes
one solution to this is to bandaid-nerf noncasters in raids by increasing all bosses armor by 1000%
or another solution is to turbo-nerf the raids to be so easy that DPS doesnt matter and no one cares and you just get free loot
They could just update buffs and consumables across the board
Or they could do what they did in p2. Buff bosses armor. However there are still some obvious outliers like warrior bleed is kinda ridiculous.
The game is already irrelevantly easy at this point. And that does not change anything. People will still care because regardless of how “easy” any particular person deems it to be, people still enjoy the competitive aspect of trying to do the best their spec is capable of against the others.
P2 casters started to shine early on, then devs nerfed armor mid phase and we ended p2 with 4 melee in the top 6 and 2 casters in the top 6.
P1 was basically same as right now. The devs are just extremely bad at balancing the game on a fundamental level.
Maybe they just lack the understanding of why melee is as good as they are.
The fact that melee get attack power from STR and AGI (the counterpart to Spell power) but casters don’t get SP from their main stat Intellect is one obvious differentiator. And then world buffs, consumables etc all generally give really good gains to those two main stats for melee. Which scales them exponentially in a fully prepared group setting.
On top of that, melee didn’t suffer as much in longer fights with things like “running out of mana”, but this has been made more irrelevant recently with Shaman and Paladin giving obscene amounts of mana back. (and yet the devs say they want to nerf mana in the future to make it relevant again).
Another issue that is more related to this phase but exists in the game…Look at the warlock/mage/spriest 3 set bonus. It applies this debuff that gives an extra 50 damage to one spell. I checked one of our boss kills and this debuff was applied 20 times with 3 casters having the set. This gave the raid an extra ~1100 total damage on the boss fight. This is actually FAR BEHIND the rogue set equivalent gains for the melee for example. And its ALOT LESS THAN ONE SINGLE ROGUE with the set.
There are a lot of clear discrepancies and personally significantly increasing boss armor would not affect PvP but easily nerf phys melee, while not nerfing like Ret paladins as much for example (since they are behind other melee phys dealers and deal decent bit of magic dmg on top of phys).
Pretty sure its a buff, not a debuff
Its a debuff applied to the enemy called Malevolence. However its an irrelevant semantics point either way?
Rogues have 10 sec stunlock, i dont wanna hear it.
2 Likes
or how about just leaving the raid as is. ranged should do significantly less dps in raid.
if all things were equal youd never bring melee.
3 Likes
Another point regarding casters that I dont see talked about much is movement. The bosses in ST all have a lot of movement mechanics, a lot more so than p2. Its hard to hard cast 3 sec abilities when you have bosses doing double knockbacks, continual kiting, targeted ground aoe abilities etc. Melee can literally be inside the rot slime and dps nearly the entire time, where as casters get a small window to hard cast when it stands still briefly. I doubt movement is entirely a make or break thing tbh, but its definitely a factor to consider.
3 Likes
Turbo nerf a super easy raid for all the loot that is on par with gnomer loot, so that people get what you think they really want, which is to waste time in a raid that isn’t fun for no loot. Yeah, great idea.
People want to pump, do big damage, see big numbers. Not difficult to understand. Casters had half of a single phase to shine, and even then, only a couple of them.
2 Likes
wont that be boring and unstimulating?
1 Like
One of these things is true, the other is provably false
They should tune the armor right. In gnome, some bosses have less armor than they should, others too much armor.
And reck should be reworked for warrior to use every fight but with less power, as they just use it 2 times per raid and have a spike in dmg that its hard to control. Let them use every boss with CD compatible with others, like PI.
1 Like
I ran ST only once, and I healed it. During the fight with the Festering Rotslime, I eventually got swallowed up. Fun discovery though, I could hard cast and the slime would move me! I certainly had a laugh and kind of want to intentionally use it next time as a strat. If my guild allows. :]
1 Like
If casters continue to do lower dps in raid, people will stop playing them and priests will actually heal me instead of playing shadow. Then maybe us warriors will stand a chance in pvp.
I’ve actually been of the opinion that if I can’t do good DPS in raid, I’ll just go do PvP and make it everyone else’s problem.
The problem is casters are now being rejected from ST groups, because the more casters you have in your ST raid, the lower your chance of success.
I thought the raids were already turbo-nerfed?
I’m sorry to say, but sadly raid difficulty in noway is the requirement for meta preference amongst a community.
Even if it’s already easy enough people will take the “better” classes to make it faster or even easier, or simply because the social understanding is “X class is better than Y, Z, and Q”
It’s true. I stopped playing about two weeks ago.
I’ve got alts of all the classes, but enjoy playing casters. Pressing one button as a hunter and topping charts is worse to me than a more complex but fun rotation for half the DPS contribution.
But half the contribution isn’t worth logging in for.
its not hard and my guild clears it 45 min. fights are under 2min, u dont need to worry about mechanics. tanks are running full dps gear, u dont need 4 healers… stop lying to urself