It’s hard when the developers implement features that promote this behavior. When you have designs in game that create animosity to other players, it creates unnecessary tension.
-MobTags
-Group Loot
-Mythic key system
-Super tiny reputation grinding zones ( this again falls into mob tags being an issue)
Those are just some things I have noticed. I’m sure there is a ton more. Don’t expect any of these to ever get addressed.
They’re going to keep hemorrhaging players until they do. In the most recent interviews they suggested they need to end their stubbornness on the issue. So I hope they actually follow through and get away from this archaic stuff.
Just play final Fantasy on Crystal data center. Way more laid back than WoW although I like both games
Yea I already left the game 2 weeks ago. It’s sad because I want to enjoy wow. I returned to FFXIV and while not perfect, I find it to be a much more enjoyable and pleasant game.
All you need to know is that the lead dev used to be in a guild called “Elitist Jerks”
A fish rots from the head
I ran a guild like this for years. That’s why I was always a Tank and just about every member had my personal cell number. If you ever needed me for anything, I was just a call away.
Over the years, you find that the people who you taught never bothered returning the favor to the other new players. Over time, you just got tired of doing it and wanted to see some more stuff (higher end) yourself. Usually, by this time, you are so burned out on the game you don’t even bother.
WoW was such a huge part of my entertainment for many years. Even to the very last day that I was playing, I was looking up guides, rotations, etc. to make sure I was doing everything right. It’s not so much the people that killed it for me as much as it was knowing I was devoting a lot of time into something that literally means nothing.
Now, I play games with a little more of a competitive nature (Predecessor) when I have the time to do so. Otherwise, you’ll find me working on my Sommelier certification (which involves drinking a lot of wine) or doing other things, not game related.
Yeah kind of the same boat here. Wow is superior in a lot of mechanical ways. The classes play better. It’s just smoother all around. The quest are more involved and less FedExy.
However, the problems wow has are too much to make it more appealing than FFXIV. I think they’ve taken a great direction with Dragonflight but they have ways to go. I will probably come back when they start implementing AI parties or alleviate the esports mentality that drives the toxicity. But not sooner.
And your source for these “hemorrhaging” players is…?
Because if they lost players every time people on the forums said they were losing players, there wouldn’t be any left.
Okay, let me see if I follow. I’ve never played FF so I’m not 100% sure if I’m getting it. She said:
Which sounds to me like FF has two group content scenarios. “Dungeons” which would be analogous to WoW normal dungeons or something and are available through the leveling experience. And “higher level raids” which would be analogous to maybe M+ which is end game content.
But you are saying there is some sort of content- a challenge mode or a particularly tough instance- which is available halfway through level cap and is more difficult than anything in WoW.
So because she omitted this piece, you’re saying she did not give the full picture, right? Would you say that, aside from the omission, she is incorrect?
My wife absolutely hated doing wow dungeons because of how toxic people are. She started playing final fantasy with me and absolutely loves how you can run dungeons with AI. I thought that was a great design. Now she feels a lot more comfortable with dungeons.
It’s really not gonna get better. They let it rot and fester for YEARS, and now just recently are starting to enforce it’s COC/EULA.
I honestly don’t have faith it ever will be.
When did anyone ever say that Final Fantasy has no challenging content? Because it sure wasn’t me. I was, and have always been talking about Final Fantasy dungeons, which are…
drum roll
brain dead easy.
So are WoW normal, so is WoW heroic.
However, since FF has no mythic plus, the only dungeon comparison we can make is…
FF dungeon vs. WoW dungeon.
Wow dungeons can be made harder, FF cannot.
Therefore all Final Fantasy dungeons = easy. READ: Not ultimate.
Mythic plus wow dungeons = harder.
Well, final fantasy doesn’t even have dungeons technically. They call them duties. But there’s also different categories like trials and also instances of just boss fights.
The poster you are referring to was disingenuous and lying because by saying the challenging content was only at high end raids, way in the end game, that says the ultima weapon fight, which happens not even halfway through the leveling experience, is not considered hard. And that’s just one example of many in the main quest line alone.
You have dungeons in the main quest line that are as hard as mythics, and honestly some that are even harder than anything I can think of here.
The mechanics in even midway leveling dungeons are equal to the mechanics you’d find in Vault of the Incarnates heroic. It’s just a dumb thing to try to say that final fantasy is somehow this “easy” game – which is the point of the poster. Both offer their challenges. And if we’re talking about just how challenging the games can get, final fantasy would win that dispute.
Not to mention you don’t have add-ons for final fantasy. No soothing British voice telling you to step over a couple of yards in a few seconds with arrows. While final fantasy does have built-in indicators of boss mechanics, it’s arguable that they are not as training wheels oriented as weak auras can get here.
My point is that trying to diminish final fantasy’s difficulty by using deceptive cherry picked content comparisons is a lie. And it should be called out.
They definitely have raids in the sense that you have a bigger group of people. I know this because one of my Discord friends is always kvetching about the people in hers. 
Alright, I think I understand the point here. What about her other points, though?
I’d like to hear what you think of these points. I’ve never played so I don’t have an idea of what the community is like outside of what I hear from these forums.
The game has a ton of young players who have a “being an evil jerk is cool” mentality and it spreads like a disease.
I haven’t run into any community problems like that. I don’t know anyone who’s been banned for anything, even. And the communication reminds me of Warcraft 3. How everyone would just say good luck have fun at the beginning of games. At the end, everyone seems to congratulate each other. Half the time, actual discussions take place. That’s the mentality. And people enjoy chatting. If someone says that they’re new to tanking, everyone gets excited about the training session they’re about to embark in, even if they were just joining a duty for a quick run.
It seems pretty genuine to me. But I’m sure there’s people that stay silent and seething. You get all kinds of people playing every kind of game. Maybe that was projection. Maybe that poster was the seething one and just saying “other people” to project it. Maybe they were banned for being actually toxic and came back here. Who knows. I haven’t observed those things.
World of Warcraft has always had some awful community tools but the real meta game for WoW is filling up that friends list with people you actually want to be around. If you want to run anything more intense than normal raids and low rank M+ keys you really need that steady stable of people just because there’s a massive chasm between people who are either good or want to get good, and the people who aren’t, or don’t want to be.
The hilarious thing is that when you suggest that keys should no longer break if you fail them, people will fall all over themselves to excuse the dumb mechanic.
The punishment for not timing a key is… you don’t time the key.
If I had to pin down four big problems with WoW’s current design…
1: The game is awful at communicating anything. What’s a friendly buff, what bad? What’s a debuff actually do? Is that a debuff I need to move away from the raid for? Is that one I should be splitting with the rest of the raid? Is it actually a DPS buff? WoW is terrible at communicating this. You shouldn’t need three mods and a staple of macros to figure out what the game is trying to tell you.
2: The game does scant little to actually guide players towards concepts like optimization. Which is fine, but optimization should, at most, double your DPS output. Not make it a factor of 4.
3: Raids are a little too in love with wasting your time. Some of it is the little stuff like making you wait ten seconds to get food buffs for absolutely no reason, some of it is the stuff like having to run all the way back to the boss instead of just letting you zone back in at the boss you died at.
4: The game doesn’t make it clear that climbing is part of the experience. Way too many people expect to be carried.
I like it’s getting the eSports path. The devs kind of deserve the wild star experience for that
One of the issues around designing your own infrastructure to support high-end gearing and stay away from toxicity is that every single community is dead. It took me a month and a half to even find a guild when I came back to the game. And they can barely fill a raid even at the beginning of a new expansion. Great people but there just aren’t the resources to connect those that would enjoy playing together.
Guilds should be cross server, if they still insist on us establishing our own infrastructures to gearing. Or make transfers free and unlimited. But if you ask me, that’s not the route they should go.
What they should be doing is implementing solo routes to the best gear in the game as alternatives. They should be also be introducing AI parties so people can learn mythics in a stress-free environment if one prefers group play.
They could do a lot of things. But relying on a non-existent social structure to support people in finding those that have the same goals in mind, and temperament, is not workable anymore. Such a system only caters to those who have already established solid infrastructures long ago.
Therefore the game will keep hemorrhaging players instead of gaining them.