It already feels like the Arathi were created because of the preemptive complaining about AU Yrel. Ducking that again just so we can have a massive new human power to boost the alliance and be the focus of the plot is factionwank.
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I don’t mind fighting the Arathi if it is like the original Scarlets being manipulated by or embracing the void/demons.
There may not be a dearth of light users, but traditional Warcraft paladin/priestly orders seem pretty absent unless they are neutral. Representation for faction-specific organizations for paladins and priests (Cult of the Forgotten Shadow included) has always been kind of odd.
Blood Knights, Sunwalkers, Prelates/Zandalari Priests, Priestesses of Elune, and Lightforged have the most distinct identities by comparison. But that still leaves a lot of races out.
Without Turaylon there isn’t a prominent Classic Warcraft human paladin hero either. After him, I can only think of Lord Maxwell Tyrosus and Captain Travard filling that role (though lacking the legacy connection).
Another thing that contributes to this sense of absence is that there isn’t much focus on the lawful good light factions’ reactions and or confrontation of the evil light users.
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forbid light users ever be villains on there own noooo, can’t have that, they need some excuse like demons so people can pretend they aren’t fighting bigots
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How does it make them any less of a bigot? Its more that line of thinking opens one up to darker forces
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if they stop using the light then there is no point in them being a light using villain group
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They still can. They wouldn’t abandon the light overnight
Incidentally a Naaru who randomly becomes the Night Warrior can still be a bigot on the side of Light even if the Night Warrior’s Magic is considered Void Life Magic in the same manner that Ardenweald’s Magic is considered Nature Death Magic and Blood Magic is considered Necromantic Life Magic.
A Naaru Prime adding Void Life to itself to be used alongside it’s Holy Light against Void Shadow is something I can easily imagine happening!
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really just trying to ruin the concept
At the end of the day, it is a matter of preference. But I see it as a poetic and fitting end. Those so full of pride that they cant stop themselves and become the very thing they hate. Feels like a well-rounded arc.
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It feels like garbage, it’s stupid that only light using villain groups get to be handed this out
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I never said other villain groups cant have intricate motives or sympathetic qualities (not that the Scarlets are sympathetic). The only reason this part was particular to the Light wielders was due to the Light and Void being tied to emotions, creation/destruction, etc. Plus there is a precedent of it happening in lore.
Its just an out, thats all it is, its just a way to give them an out
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“Oh they fell to the void and/or demons that means they weren’t really believers”
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It isn’t giving them an out. It is their moral failing.
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I’m fine with them presenting the Arathi as bad guys but the biggest curveball would be that it had nothing at all to do with their religious beliefs but gave some other reason for conflict. Like yeah we get it there’s a lot of edgelords whose dads made them go to church on easter when they were younger and they project their salt into video games but making them Scarlet Crusade with slightly pointier ears is just stupid and lazy.
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I think a practical reason would be a more interesting route to take. I also like how it could subvert subversion. It wouldn’t be about overthrowing ideals but upholding/restoring them as the Emperor and his closest allies wouldn’t be concerned with spiritual matters.
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There are a lot of story beats that I am excited for when it comes to a Light-based empire as antagonists, and a lot of story beats that I am annoyed with that I’m worried we’ll see in that kind of story.
I guess it’s kinda like that other thread about dreading Midnight - there’s the hope of seeing characters and themes one likes get a chance to shine… and the foreboding dread of seeing those favorite characters and themes get stomped on instead to favor some other story.
Overall, my main annoyance with the idea of a bunch of light zealots as main antagonists is that I feel the trajectory Blizz is on will undermine a lot of previous Light characterization that players have used as the foundation for their characters and those characters’ connection to the setting, rather than only present a new view while keeping older interpretations as valid.
I’m happy with the second option - we’ve had the Scarlet Crusade since forever, and their lore hasn’t undermined PCs’ Light-based religions. I really like the story of the Scarlet Crusade’s spiral from paranoid zombie apocalypse survivors to blind omnicidal extremists (which works just as well without dreadlord influence, or with a note that Balnazzar did not mind control them, just encouraged their worst traits).
But the SC’s story worked with a Light that was still a positive force in the setting - their extremism didn’t require the Light to become simply another color of cosmic forces that are vast and uncaring about their mortal users, and I feel that the current story is aiming towards that in a bid to level the cosmic playing field and make everything gray. I’m not fond of that - I think there’s plenty of room for evil Light users, for willpower-based Light users with no care for morality, for extremist Light worshippers/lieutenants/constructs like Xe’ra, etc, without making the Light itself a distant uncaring force and thus undermining all previous characters and PCs built on the theme of the Light responding to the goodness in them, but I feel that’s not the view here or in the writing room.
If the Arathi have plenty of backstory explaining how their xenophobia and villainy evolved that involves the Light but is not solely because of their faith in the Light, then that sounds fun to me. If their xenophobia is explained as “they’re so full of Light that they hate everything else because Light does that” (even if they say “but every cosmic force does that”), that’s an annoying villain-bat and retcon of playable characters’ preexisting religions to me. I like story reveals where previous knowledge/lore is discovered to be only a facet of a larger concept, but not when the new twist requires the original knowledge/experience to be flat wrong or imagined by the characters.
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Well no it’d only effect one religion cause every other playable characters religions have already been villain batted
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One group that I think gets overlooked a lot as far as evil-leaning Light users are the Blood Elves, specifically those towards the beginning of TBC, and I think how they did it was good; they were Light “users” in much the same way as the trolls of Zul’Drak, in that they ultimately used the supernatural force that empowered them as a weapon they had total, amoral dominance over. People always bring up Yrel or the Scarlet Crusade when they want to make the argument of “good thing is actually bad thing!” but Blizzard has been capable of being more than a one-trick pony when it comes to story telling, and as I’ve been finding out while playing through War Within, they’re still capable of good narrative. So who knows, I’ll reserve judgment but it seems like they took some of the feedback of the last few blunders and have been making good adjustments. I’m cautiously optimistic.
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Make part of the Empire good, and another part bad. Give everybody something.
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