People defend Blizzard because they want attention and will make controversial pro Blizzard statements to get it.
I don’t disagree with this statement at all. However there is one additional thing about this over real life.
This is a game that everyone pays a fee for. Regardless you buy a token or you buy the game time. In real life, hard working pays off but you aren’t paying a fee to work hard. You’re paid a fee.
So how about this. This game is entertainment right? A movie is also considered entertainment. Say you and someone else went to watch a movie. The same movie arrived at the same time. You are really excited for the movie. That other person is meh… just wanted to watch it. Does that mean cause the other person isn’t excited, they should only watch half a movie?
Casuals Don’t need the best gear because they are casuals. If by casual you mean doing the easiest content in the game then why would you need the best gear? Sure it may be more fun, but it devalues gear in the long run for players who work hard and put in the extra work.
Casuals aren’t inferior, but they shouldn’t have better or even the same gear as players who put in the work and do the hardest content in the game. Casuals can still experience higher content, they will just need to put the same effort as everyone else who wishes to play harder content.
Look, every class can do every type of content the game has to offer right now. Unless you are pushing for top 1% of content or worlds first, play what you want. Tuning happens all the time so I always just pick what I want to play and it’s worked out for me since starting the game in 2008.
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The thing is, I find the hardcore looking at this as life. Everyone is paying a fee to play, no?
Before we go to the list of your questions, could you define “casual” in regards to your post? I don’t think it means the same to you and me.
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I pay for a gym membership doesn’t mean I expect results as someone who puts more effort while in there. On same token when I see someone whose obviously on the juice I don’t look at the same. Cheaters and people that want everything handed to them for nothing are in the same corner as far as I’m concerned.
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The rewards should increase with the level of difficulty, it’s the carrot, always has been. If you want it, go get it, there’s nothing stopping you from trying.
What would drive players to do higher level content if equivalent rewards came from world quests?
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You know what, that’s fair. I’ll take the gym analogy. The only thing I will say is that gym memebership isn’t considered entertainment.
WoW and most MMORPGs follow the Risk vs Reward structure. It has nothing to do with casual/hardcore.
The more difficult the content, the better reward. Generally. Some exceptions.
Being Casual/Hardcore has nothing to do with gear.
I don’t know who is saying Classes shouldn’t be balanced.
IMO, none of OP’s statements has anything to do with Casual vs Hardcore…or people that defend Blizzard.
Going to the gym is entertainment for many people. The same view can be said about video games for others.
Bad players in good gear would not be people I want to group with actually. I like knowing there is even a mild correlation between the ilvl of someone and their ability to make my run a success.
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Hmm. Interesting thoughts and arguments being made.
Still funny how there is a casual stigma happening. As well always enjoy the random blanket retorts to nothing “only (super) casuals do this and that, they solely are for this/that/other, cause casuals are toxic bads cause [flimsy reasons on how they want it only easy].” Near perfect entertainment there.
All in all though. Interesting thread. Especially for a holiday weekend.
In the end. It is okay to show support for community and company, as well it is okay to have scrutiny, criticism and complaints about said community and company.
If neither were around, there would be a massive amount of stagnation, more than we could even begin to fathom.
That said, there is a limit that one must draw the line at before it is just too much and obvious between the sides and the middle of praising and “muck” slinging.
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As someone who has done both high-level and casual playing I can tell you a lot of work goes into being a player who can run high M+ Keys and raid. In Legion I put in that time and effort. Currently, I’m casual but plan on doing higher content.
I still believe that if you choose not to work as hard, you don’t get the same rewards, and I’m okay with that. As with anything else, you get out of it what you put into it. That’s seems perfectly fair to me. I have a hard time seeing the POV of those that think that’s not fair.
There’s ways for casuals to gear at a casual level.
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Absolutely not, though that is absolutely their prerogative.
I don’t see your point.
I agree, they’re both entertainment.
Me and my friend go to watch the movie. I am excited and they are “meh.” OK.
If the other person isn’t excited, they can do what they want. Walk out, or watch half the movie, or sit there and play on their phone. It won’t detract from my enjoyment of the movie, if it was indeed my goal to enjoy the movie (read: play WoW.)
If the goal was to see and enjoy the movie (play WoW), I accomplished that.
If my goal was to be sure my friend enjoys the movie (read: enjoys WoW) … well … I spoke about subjectivity earlier. I can’t hinge my personal experience on whether or not some other person enjoys some manner of subjective entertainment. It’s futile to attempt to make someone enjoy something subjective.
More to the point, if my goal was to attempt to have the entire theater enjoy the movie … that’s a ludicrous goal. You’re never going to please everyone.
“You can please some of the people all of the time. You can please all of the people some of the time. But, you cannot please all of the people all of the time.”
- John Lydgate
Why does somebody need progression that rivals the progression of vastly harder content, for little to no effort?
We want competent people at high gear ranges, not an over inflated pool of
High ilvl players that key turn.
There rewards should be, yes.
They can by putting in the effort.
All classes are viable, despite what the doomsayers would have you believe.
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Is there really though?
I would say there is just as much stigma towards “hardcores”. I mean, this entire thread was created to push that stigma.
I think the larger issue is that there is no set definition as to what makes a person “casual” or “hardcore”. I would even go as far to say that most people the vocal “casual” crowd calls “hardcore”…is not hardcore.
Example, I generally push decently into mythic raiding. Was so close to CE Nzoth. I think many on the forums would lump me into “hardcore”. I would not.
2 day raiding, in 3 hour splurts, to me, is casual raiding.
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It’s simple, gear isn’t progression. Gear is a tool that allows progression.
Why should a player have easy access to the gear required for the most difficult content when they didn’t have interest in getting the gear from the easier content?
This exactly though… they are allowed what they want to do. Why is the hardcore player base the ones dictating what casuals should and should not get?
It doesn’t. But if casual content can drop Great gear, then im forced to do casual content as well. Which resulting in a MASSIVE laundry list of boring content that i must complete every week. No.
Gear has nothing to do with whether people can do high end content or not. I take a high IO player with less gear over a better geared player with lower IO in a heart beat. Infact, by casuals getting higher level of gear, it gets harder and harder to distinguish if this really geared guy has really gotten all his gear through performance, or sheer luck. resulting in you inviting in garbage player.
again. Gear has nothing to do with “allowed experience higher content” If your gear is garbage, but have decent logs, and have excellent ilvl logs, you are good player down on ur luck. and i will invite you into my pugs. but if you have great gear, but getting grey ilvl parses, No. just No.
Class should be balanced. true. Class should also be balanced based on opinion of those who understands the class interaction inside and out. Casual’s opinion on class balance are at best harmful to overall balance of the game, and best ignored.
In conclusion, Casual don’t need gear to complete casual content. Gear alone does not, and should not provide casual player with a ticket to higher end content. they would only drag their group down.
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There’s a reason why they do put casuals down and it about the mentally depriving them of what so they want by selling whatever they want to the casual.