The Odd Myth of the Night Elf Golden Decade

Lore Story Forum
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It’s hard to say with the relative factor weights. It’s complicated because people don’t play this game for just one reason, and you have a dizzying array of factors from base aesthetics, to gameplay, to the social aspect, raiding, PVP, PVE, life, and everything inbetween. If I were to give someone 100 points to allocate along those factors about what they find important, ask them to grade those factors in quality every three months, do that over ten years, and then have another 3000 people do that same thing - then I think I’d be working with a complete enough picture to place those relative weights.

But, that’s REALLY hard, to the point of it probably not being possible. Instead I have to bear the abstract model in mind, and consider that if a factor depreciates in value, if nothing else changes, then the experience is made worse.

Edit: Anyway - again, the reason I liked the vanilla-classic comparison was because it takes a lot of these weights and makes them the same. Aesthetics haven’t changed, raiding is the same, PVE is the same, and PVP is the same - except where player behavior makes it different (which isn’t nothing - but I can accept the error in-built to that versus the one we’d get in trying to compare to retail where these factors are in motion). What has changed of course is player impressions - what sources of first impressions and impressions in general are in people’s minds when they look over the character selection screen in 2019 versus 2004.

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The same reason a lot of other non night elf players are dropping classic. After the new shiny gleam wore off a lot of folks realised that they were missing things from retail that they couldn’t live without, such as flying, transmogs etc.

So next thing that’s coming up…is Burning Crusade classic servers.

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Well now, literally all the content for Classic is out.

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Most if not all of what you listed is content where Night Elves lose something and we’re never shown a resolution, or they’re just talking about how sad it is that X Night Elf thing was blown up.

Val’sharah has Ysera dying and also has a comically bad portrayal of Tyrande and Malfurion, which they could have salvaged with two voice lines but they didn’t. Black Rook Hold has undead Night Elves and showing how this Nelf hero has been corrupted by the Legion and needs to be saved. The ‘win’ is him being put to rest, then we never see him again. Mount Hyjal gets flat out nuked by the Firelands and the status of those burnt out areas still isn’t known. Naz’jatar I can’t even believe you’d count, it’s a shadow of what we were told it was for years, and Tyrande and Malfurion aren’t even present, just Shandris, who was a teenager in the War of the Ancients and never even met Azshara.

As for the Illidari, uh… if we’re counting Night Elf adjacent stuff as lore, sure. Pre-Legion, I’d tentatively agree that they were Kaldorei story things, but Illidari lore now is so divorced from Kaldorei culture and lore that it’s tenuous at best.

None of what you listed has a positive impact on Night Elf story, it’s just… there. It’s “attention” but objectively bad attention, nothing advances, it just stays static or is lost.

Also saying no other race gets its history represented as much is a bit false. If we go by your metric, Trolls and Humans have had more history represented than Kaldorei.

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I’m just not a fan of adding yet another mOrAlLy GrEy group to the Horde for the sake of some sort of edge, honestly. The Iron Horde is almost more corrupt than the Old Horde because they didn’t even have the excuse of Fel blood to fall back on. As I said, they’re essentially unchanged from WoD, they have all the old tech, gronn, weapons, and magicks.

The Mag’har from Outland have been shown as part of the Horde for years, but they haven’t been acknowledged, and again, Orcs sorely need some relevant lore characters, which Outland has in spades.

Also the leader of these new Mag’har implies that she wants to wipe out Azeroth’s Draenei, while another NPC talks about collecting Draenei tendrils to make decorations out of, which is… something.

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Is that really any different from the myriad Alliance leaders who have come out for extermination of the Horde races?

Again…considering that the Horde literally used Draenei bones as road pavement, it is it really surprising that some Draenei might want to respond in kind?

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Name three.

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(Shrug) Your perceptions are yours and I’m not going to argue with them. I just don’t see any of the things I’ve listed as essentially negative.

However, I will strongly disagree with this:

When have we actually journeyed into the past to witness major events in troll or human history? When have we had guided tours of troll or human ruins, with knowledgeable NPCs explaining the history of the place as part of extended quest chains? How many ancient troll or human citiies are populated by ghosts going about their lives and showing us what the place was like in its heyday? Night Elves have had all those things.

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I don’t see the point in treating this like a negotation.

I think the Brain Trust that is WoW’s writing team is just flailing wildly trying to recreate whatever’s popular in pop culture using the WoW narrative, and mostly failing. They’ve had years and years of consistent feedback on why people liked Warcraft’s story and why people don’t like WoW’s story, and they’ve not accomplished anything.

I think if we do get good NE content in future, it’ll be purely by accident.

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I really love when people go, My way is the only way, people dont like the story, yeah those poeple dont exist.

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Actually Hyjal has been pretty well restored during questline. And since Ragnaros was put down I could imagine all the zone is green again.
I was recently flying around and checking the zone trying to measure where possible new Nelf capitol could be, and all these spots where Twilight Hammer had it’s base were pretty valid. I could even make some sketch Design.

Back in the day I even posted interesting Idea for the phased content.
Like how during expansion span you build your capital by gathering resources. And slowly set up new wing of the city, unlock Bank, AH and so on, and has entertaining dailies to see how the city is slowly growing.

It would give a nice sense of progression and visible accomplishment.

I had a similar idea for the reclamation of Zul’Drak under Zandalari Empire, we start at the top - so Gun Drank and fight downwards for each Zone. (or reverse) And we have finally a meaningful restoration story for trolls too.

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How about Horde Players meet the Lion Loa in the Shadowlands, and he tells us that Humans killed him and stole his ancient lands. So the Trolls expel those cursed Titan robots to the Telogrus Rift with their Void Elf friends.

That is some Troll reclamation.

Maybe we can give Void Elves blonde hair, and that will be enough to count as parity for most of the Alliance Player base.

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Nope, No trolls ever recieved their caverns of time moment where we witness important part of their history. Or we had a story that presents them gaining something.

I really wished we had it instead of Uldir - a troll Academy for Arcanitals and Chroniclers where we go witness events of their pats instead of fighting ugly blood slug - and a story that contributes absolutely nothing to Zandalari narrative.
Apparently a nation that is known from Scholars didn’t bother to research a bigass titan facility for thousands of years.
Also apparently Nazmir was always a swamp, not made into one during Cataclysm as Zandalar was always montain-esque Zone.
And other lorelols but I digress.

All troll content is reduced to “Trolls are desperate and are up to fight again, we need to put them down!” - over, and over, AND OVER AGAIN.
It’s repetitive and uninspiring. All their stories are about loss and collapse. Ever since Aquir Wars - let that sink in - for 16k years trolls were denied any meaningful victory or story of restoration. (besides of reclamation of Echo Isles, which they had to get back because they started the game experience without even a starting zone). And you claim that they’re ahead of nelves of getting good spotlight? You lost me in here.

There was not even a narrative swing to portray them in the right or at least acknowledge thier perspective, or acknowledgment of their martyrology.

So sorry but I have to strongly disagree that they had good representation. If we discount Nelves getting meaningful spotlight because they lose some stuff then why are you bringing trolls into it? Is being constantly raided something positive? Then why are you crossing out Ravenhold?
I really fail to grasp it.

Sure, BfA did a lot of good stuff with Zandalari AND the Darkspears. I can acknowledge bone being thrown at me when I see it. But it also came with lots of hiccups. And the most painful one was losing yet again another iconic troll character. (I guess I’ll never get over ol’ Rasty)

This is why I believe nelf players should also appreciate the positive stuff that was provided to them. And I believe Legion content was such a thing. Same with Hyjal.
And while Nazjatar is tricky it still allows you to visit a place of great importance and learn a few things about it.
I’d be happy to visit Darkspears first home, even if no big lore character appeared there. But all the small trivia and references would be still quite a good feature to me.

Sure, it could be just me being troll fan and having to adapt to appreciate the smallest things because they got so little for so many years, but I believe that nelves did get some nice stuff even if the narration wasn’t always in their favors.

They got lots of hubs around the world, lots of small questlines that adds something new (even in WoD I really liked the small chain on how to set up a Moonwell- I thought it was simple and very sweet addition as I always dug such a small world building trivia). New gorgeous art assets, armors, mounts and customization.

Darkspears gain was reading in table missions that apparently they built the biggest Port at Horde.
And I have to say that Drustvar invasion was pretty sweet and their portrayal in Nazmir. But they had to wait how many years to be portrayed as competent?
Even Vol’Jin’s revolution left lots of stuff to be desired.

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I’d say no, because I want meaningful story not bizzare azzpull stories. Besides, this scenario would portray trolls as agressors once again and humans as the poor “just defending themselves” fellas as those pesky trolls cannot learn that they should simply get over themselves and stuff from thousands of years ago.

I’d stick with my Reclamation of Zul’Drak story. We could learn that Some Drakkari are actually still fighting there, and we could also forward the plot of poor abused Frostmane. If Zul’Drak is cleansed and secured, the Drakkari numbers could be replenished with the Frostmane immigrants as I believe their situation in KhazModan is hopeless. They’re literally surrounded by Alliance, their kids are killed, and they’re butchered daily for daring to live there. And when Zandalari tried to intervene, they were portrayed as the evil ones :roll_eyes:

This way Dwarves would have to find new punching bags, and trolls get back meaningful hub of historic value.

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And this is why the Trolls never get any where. They can’t unite.

Some want to chase the Cursed Titan Robots off our planet, reclaim our land, and avenge our fallen Loa… others want to hang out in some frozen tundra.

Hopefully, Loa Voljin and Talanji bring purpose to our scattered vision. Cuz Zul Drak… bleh. The Trolls lost it to their own mismanagement and to the Scourge. It doesn’t sate my lust for Alliance blood to try and reclaim it.

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Do you really believe that Blizzard would allow for trolls to win against Humans? Did you just play through BfA? Saw how Jaina got scott free from raiding DA and killing Rastakhan?

I’d say that your expectations are far less realistic.

I think that since we’re returning to Northrend to deal with SL sheningans it is a good narratively motive to revisit Zul’Drak, get it back, restore it so Trolls have another strong foothold on the world.

But it’s just a fan concept. On what I and other players that I discussed and liked.
Same with taking Un’Goro for Darkspears/Zandalari and Farraki.
Simply because it provides access to a great land to train and tame beasts, it would be a great zone for druidic research and it wouldn’t be a zone that Alliance lost to complain about.

These are very safe options that imo makes sense and would give a posivite story.

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Hi hello good morning here to cause unrest uwu

Lore interview podcast from yesterday that wasn’t noticed

Danuser toward the end states that the players will help Tyrande sate her need for vengeance and save her from the self-destructive power of the Night Warrior

Discuss amongst yourselves ciao

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I genuinely do not think it is possible to reclaim Zul’Drak. From the sounds of it, it wasn’t just the physical Scourge that led to the destruction of that people. Or pushed them to such desperation that they felt the need to cannibilize their own loa. The Plague of Undeath has been seeded deep into the Soil in much of that Kingdom. What little will grow there now is just as liable to be infected and aid in you in joining the ranks of the Undead. It is a contaminated wasteland of what once was a great empire that no longer supports life. Which is what led to the Drakkari’s effective extinction.

As for OPs point. Truly I think nothing in WoW damaged their WC3 image more than the WotA content, and additions to their extended backstory. Its within that very same content that ties them to so much history of the world where the idea of NE “Savagery” sort of ceased to make any sense. Because unlike Orcs or Trolls, there is nothing inherent to their history, culture, or environment that would explain such a trait. Their military tactics and style were rendered little more than “Savage by Highborne standards”. Adopted out of necessity due to how their opponents (Highborne/Legion) fought at the time.

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The crops were growing just fine around the aqueducts, and since Plaguelands were reverted back to normal from … well the horrid stage that it was, then I firmly believe Zul’drak could be reverted too, especially when the rot only affected ground level (and it wasn’t even as bad as Plaguelands were) majority of the Zone looked fine. Especially with Loa’s aid it should be possible.

It is the best option to make them reclaim a foothold without stepping on someone else toe.

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https://youtu.be/EjyvlSgkEzY?t=1746
With timecode.
Not so much. About the sad end of the Night Warriors, about quenching the thirst for revenge and coming to an agreement with force.