The number one reason I'm excited and can't wait for tbc is the lack of world buffs

Basically. I wouldn’t call anything that changes a game’s experience arbitrary.

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The people who are dispelling world buffs are doing the world a favor.

If enough of them occur, that trolling will actually lead to such frustration that people will avoid getting world buffs.

It can help solve the problem of people relying on the buffs just to carry their otherwise poor gameplay.

The amount of time you’re saying to disable them is arbitrary.

So then how do we determine a duration that isn’t arbitrary?

World buffs don’t even need disabling they just need to stop having identical or similar effects be additive like how some other consumables and buffs can’t be stacked for additive effect.

The only reason why world buffs are able to bypass that same limitation that other consumables and buffs have are because they were never designed to be stacked like that.

I imagine it would need to be data driven. “How long does it take the average guild to fully clear the raid?” “How many weeks of clearing the current raid content do most people remain active?”

I personally wouldn’t disable world buffs at all because I’m a no changes guy, but I’d imagine whatever reason Blizzard would ever have for disabling world buffs would be related to increasing subscription numbers/slowing subscription loss.

They were quite literally designed to be stacked. That’s why they can all be applied to a character concurrently and the consumables you’re talking about can’t.

That’s not design that’s called oversight.

Comments from the original WoW devs themselves confirms that it was an oversight.

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You have a quote of them saying the world buffs aren’t supposed to stack? All I’ve seen from them is that they never expected people to stack them every week.

They’re baffled by what people do to min/max their game this long after its release, but I’ve never seen them saying they’re not supposed to stack.

Blizzard has made numerous changes that fall under that category of “we would’ve changed this in vanilla if we had known,” yet they don’t touch world buffs.

You can google the Twitch highlight of Kevin Jordan explaining who designed world buffs and how they were added to the game ie… by completely different developers and people.

Calling an oversight to a problem that never existed as intentional design is a huge stretch at best.

And I never said world buffs shouldn’t stack I said that identical effects from different world buffs shouldn’t be additive in benefit the same way I can stack a magic resistance potion and a fire resistance totem but only gain limited fire resistance from either.

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And it is beautiful isn’t it?

Yep, I love Classic, but TBC fixes what is probably Classic’s biggest flaw, the world buff exploit. Skill and gear will matter more in TBC.

That’s nice. Want to answer the question I asked?

“I’m not saying X, I’m saying X!”

You’re just rephrasing the exact same thing.

Saying that they were designed to be stacked is discredited by the fact that they weren’t even designed or added by the same people at the same times or points in the games development.

Your only argument is “well they can stack so it must’ve been intentionally designed that way!” That’s a huge stretch and oversights in game design happen all the time.

Let me guess… “Well Blizzard hasn’t fixed this yet I must be on to something it means I’m right…” Many of the things that Blizzard has decided to change were done months and months after they already caused harm to this game and you can’t predict what they decide to change moving forward.

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So something can only be designed intentionally if the same people worked on it at all times?

Many of the things they changed months was only because they became prominent months after it was possible, e.g. Ignite not working properly for all of Classic, only changed once AQ40 came out because every Mage went fire.

If it was a problem that the attack power buffs from various world buffs were stacking, they would’ve fixed that once Dire Maul came out, because that’s when everyone started doing it.

The world buffs are designed to stack together, and they’re designed to stack with buffs/consumes of the same type. That’s because they’re world buffs. They weren’t expected to be used for EVERY RAID, so Blizzard did not design them to be exclusive.

Many things have been prominent for months and months and still aren’t changed. Honor padding still isn’t changed as of this reset and has been well known and well documented as being exploitative for a long time and it’s only now that Blizzard is realizing how much RMT revolves around it.

I can understand why it’s tough for them to change some things because changing worlds buffs right now or even a few months back would alienate a ton of players and force them to do a 180 overnight. They have to balance game fixes with rational implementation that doesn’t completely derail large segment of players.

No one can say for certain whether Blizzard won’t eventually change some functionality with world buffs eventually.

That’s for sure, but what they intend to do now (or choose not to do) doesn’t prove whether they were supposed to stack or not.

That’s why I was asking for a quote where they said they were not supposed to stack. It think it’s fairly easy to explain why they would intend for them to stack; they just didn’t think it would so greatly affect the meta 15 years down the line during an unforeseen relaunch.

Blizzard, even in back in vanilla, went through and made some things not stack (namely consumables). However, many buffs of the same type still stack, e.g. attack power increases. Battle Shout + Trueshot Aura. Should only the better of the two apply? Was that oversight, or intended design?

Why do Firewaters and Juju Powers not stack? Because they deliberately designed it so they wouldn’t so people wouldn’t get both. By contrast, world buffs and other stacking effects were deliberately designed to stack.

I think its because they realized people would stack consumables but not world buffs. You are starting from the assumption that when a buff or consume is put into the game, its default behavior is set to “no-stack”. And there’s no way to prove that.

There’s no doubt it will be way better in TBC to be able to compete at an optimal level without having to spend several hours prior to raid dancing around each continent getting buffs and paying for summons. The advent of warcraft logs has really pushed this mindset even in more casual guilds which I am a part of. There will certainly be other things in TBC to min max like being a leatherworker and enchanter to get ring enchants and drums but it wont be nearly as bad as it is now. There is no time restraint or risks min maxing in tbc. In classic you have specific duration on wb’s, risk of getting dispelled, and summoning safe spots near raid zones. TBC you can just show up with your consumes and you will be set. No longer will you need to put a burden on your raid to summon you because MUH WB’S

I too get mad when people log out. How dare they not play this game mindlessly 24/7?

Exactly. Blizzard just didn’t expect people to get every world buff.

It certainly seems to be the opposite, given that most effects stack. They also used to all stack prior to a change they made in vanilla, if I recall correctly.

But it doesn’t matter what the default is. The important part is that they stacked in vanilla, and there’s no evidence to suggest that was unintentional.