Correct. These comparisons aren’t really comparable at all.
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What deterred me from ESO was the cash shop. The best outfits, appearances and mounts all came from there, at least when I played last. I get that it’s a free to play game and the cash shop keeps it running, but dang. I would go as far as to say it’s downright predatory.
It was just a boring, linear WOW clone.
He said about the most erudite and obfuscated game of all time, Path of Exile.
Sorry, maybe i could of used better examples.
I decided to choose a list of popular complex games.
The point is clear.
All you crying about wow being to complex for new players is objectively wrong.
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Games that share the same genre as WoW would be a good start.
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I wouldn’t say POE and POE2 are good examples… POE cultivated that audience over a span of 12-13 years of consistency and good-will. Also that was on a mini-league launch.
League in no way is complicated or complex until you hit like platinum… the majority of players have no idea what they’re doing below plat, so it’s more about you gain rating along with your knowledge base, inherently league is very simple.
Elden Ring, I wouldn’t call complex.
wrong,
Comparison: LoL has fewer keybinds (6–10 vs. WoW’s 10–30), but its mechanical demands (skillshots, micro) are more intense for high-skill champions. WoW’s higher keybind count and multitasking (especially in PvP team fights or raids) make it mechanically complex in a broader sense. LoL edges out slightly for micro-intensive mechanics.
Wrong,
Elden Ring’s gameplay is both complex and difficult, but these qualities stem from distinct aspects of its design.
Defining Terms
- Complexity: Involves intricate systems, numerous mechanics, or strategic depth (e.g., many keybinds, build variety, or knowledge requirements). A complex game demands learning and decision-making.
- Difficulty: Relates to execution challenge, punishing mechanics, or high skill ceilings. A difficult game tests precision, reflexes, or resilience, often with steep consequences for failure.
- Combat demands precise timing for dodges (i-frames), parries, and attacks. Bosses like Malenia (Waterfowl Dance) or DLC’s Promised Consort Radahn require 3–5 perfectly timed inputs per combo, with errors often fatal. Radahn’s solo clear rate is 2.8% on Steam, reflecting high skill demand.
- No pause feature and real-time combat increase pressure, unlike WoW’s more forgiving rotations or LoL’s respawn system. A single mistimed dodge can cost 50–100% health, compared to WoW’s recoverable mistakes (e.g., Shadow Priest’s Dispersion).
- Example: Malenia’s 1% first-try clear rate (per player polls) shows execution difficulty, even with optimized builds.
- Elden Ring’s gameplay is extremely difficult due to precise execution, punishing deaths, and unadjustable difficulty. It exceeds WoW’s forgiving mechanics and matches or surpasses LoL’s micro-demand in solo contexts.
Just a few or MANY examples of elden rings complexity.
So did wow, and we are not talking about player count, we are talking about complexity.
Please stay on topic.
So, I stand by what I said. Simple at heart until you get higher rating.
Stop using chatGPT to make bad arguments for you.
Elden Ring is VERY straight forward.
Being wrong is your specialty.
Try harder and use your own words, it’s pathetic.
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Love both of these. Neither are complex, but a matter of skill (dodging, parrying, and countering).
You need to read over your chatgpt sludge before posting it.
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wrong.
Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 is considered moderately complex by players and critics, with its complexity stemming from its hybrid combat system, deep customization, and narrative depth, though it’s designed to be accessible.
Sounds like you could benefit from learning to use the internet to get your facts straight.
Coming into someone’s thread for the sole purpose to argue, troll and lie with wrong facts is against the forums TOS.
Needing three versions of the same ability on my bars so I could closely manage my mana, needing to figure out which pets to tame for different ranks of Bite and Claw, having to train weapon skills so that I could melee well enough to get mana back on my Boomkin, etc. isn’t what I’d call simple.
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Again, read your chatgpt output before posting, you just shoved mechanics AND story under complex. The story is complex and heartbreaking.
The combat however? Very elegant, not complex at all, especially not in the beginning.
You’re not even reading what you’re responding to.
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I’ll never stop bringing up how many people use questie to get through classic lol.
Quests are so convoluted and confusing, you almost need it or a tab of wowhead open.
Not to mention overall leveling direction is insanely confusing.
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Different kind of complex
Classic was a tedious kind of complex.
Retail has “this ability buffs this ability which procs this ability” level of complexity, with a lot of tedium removed due to QoL implementations.
I think depth might be more accurate? I’unno.
Clair Obscur: Expedition 33’s combat system is moderately complex, blending turn-based JRPG mechanics with real-time elements that demand strategic planning and skillful execution. Building on your prior discussions about game complexity (e.g., Elden Ring’s punishing gameplay, WoW’s Shadow Priest PvP, LoL’s knowledge demands) and your interest in complex games like Path of Exile 2 (578,569 peak Steam players) that attract players, I’ll evaluate Expedition 33’s combat complexity specifically, focusing on mechanics, strategic depth, and learning curve. I’ll use recent reviews, player feedback from Reddit and X (as of May 2025), and comparisons to WoW (4–5 million Retail subscribers), LoL (81 million monthly players), and Elden Ring (25 million sold), tying it to your critique of WoW’s “one-button rotations” and the appeal of complex games. The analysis will be concise and focused on combat, addressing your question directly.
Defining Combat Complexity
Combat complexity involves:
- Mechanical Depth: Number and variety of inputs (e.g., keybinds), timing, or skill required.
- Strategic Depth: Tactical choices, build customization, or synergy management.
- Learning Curve: Time and effort to master the system.
Expedition 33’s Combat Complexity
Based on reviews, Reddit threads, and X posts, here’s a breakdown of Expedition 33’s combat:
1. Mechanical Depth
- Hybrid System: Combat combines turn-based JRPG mechanics (e.g., selecting attacks, skills, or items, similar to Persona 5) with real-time elements inspired by action games like Sekiro and Paper Mario. Players use ~8–12 keybinds for commands, including attacks, skills, items, and real-time actions like parries, dodges, and quick-time events (QTEs) for combos or counters.
- Real-Time Elements:
- Parries: Require precise timing (narrow windows, likened to Sekiro’s deflects) to negate damage or counterattack. Reviews (e.g., IGN) praise their “satisfying depth,” but Reddit users note they’re challenging, with some switching to dodge-focused play after failing parries.
- Dodges: More forgiving than parries, allowing evasion of telegraphed attacks, but still require timing.
- QTEs and Combos: Certain skills trigger real-time inputs (e.g., pressing buttons in sequence for extra damage), adding mechanical skill. These can be toggled off for accessibility, reducing complexity for casual players.
Combat requires balancing turn-based decisions (e.g., targeting elemental weaknesses, managing MP) with real-time reactions (parries, QTEs). Players must exploit enemy weaknesses (e.g., fire-vulnerable bosses) and chain character abilities for buffs/debuffs, similar to Persona’s Baton Pass.
Verdict: Highly complex strategically. The Lumina system, character synergies, and weakness exploitation rival WoW’s talent depth and approach LoL’s build variety, surpassing traditional JRPGs.
Player Data: The game sold 1 million copies in 3 days (outpacing Metaphor: ReFantazio) and hit 121,422 peak Steam players in April 2025, per SteamDB, with high Metacritic user scores (9.6/10). This suggests combat complexity doesn’t deter players, aligning with your post’s claim about complex games (e.g., PoE2, Elden Ring).
Please learn to use the internet.
Imagine being wrong over and over and continuing to argue. 
This is all gibberish
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Sorry learn english then.
That’s all he posts. I don’t know how he was allowed back on the forums after his last breakdown.
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Doesn’t help they are copy/pasting chatgpt.
I was wondering why I hadn’t seen them for awhile lol.
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