The New leader of the Forsaken

I’m echoing what I put in the 8.3 thread.

It’s important that the Forsaken don’t immediately lose their identity due to a Calia-shaped band-aid provided by the Alliance.

I have a lot of thoughts on it and it’s too complicated for me to coalesce into a forum post at 9 in the morning. But this is a very good viewpoint to have and it’s interesting, because it brings up the notion of undeath as a second chance - something which is brought up prior to BfA and within it.

I worry that the current writers don’t understand the Forsaken as a whole are a deeply disenfranchised, traumatized people who have met death and now walk in it – and that seeing an effigy of the Light raised into a different kind of undeath, one that doesn’t have the horrific history of murder and suffering and retribution behind it… kind of stings, really. Especially in that it’s a strange redemption in the form of their former oppressor’s sister.

It’s complicated and I don’t know if I trust current teams to kind of delve into that.

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I’m also gonna echo what i said in the 8.3 thread because I feel like I articulated it better.

I’m likely in the minority as far as Forsaken go, but if Calia brings a more nuanced representation of the Forsaken than the cartoon villains they’ve so far been in game, I’m 100% all for it.

How Forsaken were represented in Before the Storm is how I’ve always hoped we’d see them. At their core, they’re undead humans of Lordaeron. Victims of the Scourge, the most horrendous evil in Warcraft History. I never understood how they ALL turned maliciously evil - surely some of them saw the value in their old life, their old ways, or simply saw undeath as a second chance at life, rather than a chance to blight everyone around them.

So, I dunno. I like Calia. I hope she becomes Queen. I’m looking forward to seeing the Forsaken slowly rebrand their image and be represented as… people.

That said, I also hope that she’s not universally accepted or loved. She should never be as popular as Sylvanas was. She can’t fill that near-messianic role. But I have no issue with her coming to rule.

With all that in mind, I guess I personally never signed on because I got to be a muahaha evil type. I loved the Forsaken because of who they were AND because of who they became. The tragedy of Lordaeron is one of the most compelling of the Warcraft Universe and has been hidden by Sylvanas’ cult of personality for too long. Calia may finally let us see more individuality in the Forsaken, in part because she’ll never be able to fill the near messianic shoes of Sylvanas. Her rule won’t fully unite her people. But we’ll see more sides to their nature, not just one.

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I expect IC Forsaken loyalists’ (and some non-loyalists’) reactions to Calia are about the same as Illidan’s reaction to the Naaru.

That being said, I also expect Blizz to just gloss over the story and not show any real animosity. If there is any, they’ll treat the Forsaken the same way the Kor’kron were treated. Oh look, another correlation to the Garrosh storyline…

When is Christie Golden’s writing supposed to kick in? Is this it? Is it still coming?

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Though it looks like it’s pretty cut-and-dry going to be Calia, Derek, or both at this point, I’ve always wished they’d flesh out Gunther Arcanus more. Dude broke the Lich King’s mind-control when it was still in full swing solely via his own will, and all he gets is a low level quest chain.

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Same, he had the potential to be such an important character of the Forsaken - even their future. But to my knowledge he’s not even in game anymore. :confused:

Believe it or not my biggest issue with Calia being the Forsaken leader is that she doesn’t look like the Forsaken, that was one of my issues with Sylvanas. Why is an undead elf, who looks all perfect and non-rotting, the faction leader of a bunch of Undead humans who are rotting and everything?

I just didn’t like it. Give me someone who IS Forsaken. Don’t give me someone like Sylvanas or Calia.

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I think Rykadiel and Maerlyn share my thoughts and articulated them far better than I could.

P.S: I’m getting less and less desire to play this game. If it weren’t for Forsaken role-play I would not be playing this game and if the Forsaken get ruled over by some Light Lady then I certainly won’t be playing or at least paying to play.

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I mean. Welcome to what they’ve done to the Horde since Cata, I guess?

I really do feel for your Forsaken bros :frowning: They were never my jam, but screw having an Alliance puppet as our racial leader.

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Sums up my feelings pretty well.

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After a good morning’s rest i’ve gotten back up and decided to stow up to an hour to plug away at this topic and the idea of Calia becoming the Forsaken lead. That’s right folks, it’s time for another Mardecai essay. Wherein I rant about certain things involving the Forsaken as a race. Similarly you can also find me being a bit angered about the treatment on Tyrande and the Nelves.

Before I do this, however, I had also wanted to give a link where I talk about episodic content but I can’t find it sadly. A synopsis will have to do: Blizzard’s storytelling isn’t worth much in Battle for Azeroth because we only see the focal points. It’s like reading The Fellowship (LotR) without understanding the journey; you’re only going between The Shire, Minas Tirith, Helms Deep, Battle at the Black Gate and then Mount Doom. It doesn’t work within the medium.

But I digress - and should get back onto point. Calia herself had the ability to become a good Forsaken leader if she was properly represented and underwent development that is parallel to the Forsaken. She hasn’t, and likely won’t due to her current development, and her usurping the Forsaken leadership position will completely destroy the Forsaken in an attempt to change or “update” their racial theme due to a heavy lack of effort and finesse on Blizzard’s development and writers parts, showcasing using a sledgehammer to hammer a nail through a thin board.

Allow me to explain from Warcraft’s beginnings; well, since Warcraft Three and the plaguing of Lordaeron.

Calia Menethil had underwent the experience that a majority of the Forsaken have. She saw her homeland suffer and her people turned into rotting zombies. This is the only real part that she could successfully argue that connects her to the Forsaken. It does. However following that she fled her Homeland, leaving her people to rot and suffer and die from the Scourge, while she was mysteriously absent. Not even a letter or a mention.

As the Princess of Lordaeron was mysteriously absent all this while the Forsaken - her subjects, all of them until Cataclysm - were undergoing tremendous change and writing. The embodiment of the Forsaken had become it’s namesake; those who were raised and suffered through the Lich King’s tyrannical control as they were turned back onto their friends, family, and town. It continued until one by one they gradually broke free as the Lich King’s powers waned come Warcraft Three: The Frozen Throne.

And as they began to break free they started assembling becoming newly fashioned undead with free will. Under Sylvanas’ Leadership (addendum: please don’t focus on Sylvanas, though i’m going to argue for her as well.) they took back surrounding areas from the remnants of both Legion and Scourge in Tirisfal Glades. Granted the embodiment of honour and such from their actual lives dissipated along with them as they were to exchange it for a pragmatic sense of self-control. Their first, actual -real- act of becoming a ‘nation’ was executing Garithos and his ilk to take what was supposed to be given to him for themselves.

Yet even that wasn’t enough. Throughout the journey into World of Warcraft the Forsaken were in an incredibly dismal area. The Forsaken’s hold on Tirisfal Glades, Silverpine Forest and Hillsbrad Foothills was shakey at best. They fell in with the Horde - a cool relationship at best - because the Alliance didn’t respond and (probably) outright attacked their diplomatic envoys seeking peace or at least recognition that they weren’t scourge. On fronts of old they found old allies had turned against them - even own family members and such. Forsaken in name and in practice even moreso. The only thing that kept them running was incorporating Scourge blight and retooling it into the Forsaken’s hands so that they could survive. At all cost.

Their themes ran an undercurrent and gamut of pragmatism. But the most iconic of them is that the Forsaken are the dark shadow of Azeroth. The question that how truly dark and lost are they, and how far of a monster they’d go to continue surviving in a land that’s been hostile to them since their very inception as a ‘race’?

Despite the intention of trying to place Calia Menethil at the head of the Forsaken after Sylvanas Windrunner it’s done so horrendously that she has become the antithesis of the Forsaken instead. Trying to think of a better way to word what comes next…

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The Princess herself has always had people vouch for her ever since her arrival. She was mentored by the great Alonsus Faol himself, had regularly treated with Alliance members and had done nothing to aid her original people in Lordaeron. The woman, despite her platitudes of knowing what it is to be ‘Forsaken’ is also deliberately - if not horrendously - ignorant of those she tries to represent. No one had forsaken her in life - maybe Arthas, but then that’s a common tie with a lot of Forsaken - and neither in death. Her death was at her own expense of trying to assert her royal authority over a people who’ve been living without her for longer than a decade, who’s first action as false-queen led to the death of her own subjects nonetheless. Completely inept.

Her entire death and subsequent resurrection seemed to change the entire way the Light worked against Undead so that she could come back. But even she wasn’t Forsaken. Infact, ironically enough, Calia Menethil was chosen - by the Light nonetheless to be resurrected by both a Naaru and it’s two priests. Lightforged Undead. The only one in existence apparently. Even in death she doesn’t languish. Her entire mood hasn’t changed to come close to the Forsaken so she doesn’t mesh at all with how her subjects have undergone.

Frankly I knew from the beginning when I read Before the Storm’s synopsis is that they’re going to try this. But it’s come far beyond my own expectations of how it’d go. It isn’t hamfisted, it’s a wrecking ball in proportion. Hints at 8.3, and at 8.2.5 has shown that she seamlessly slides into become Queen of Lordaeron - along with Derek Proudmoore - without much actual resistance. It’s the equivalent of Deathwing doing nothing despite having the power to destroy Azeroth a few times over in regards to politicking.

The idea of progressing and growing as a race is an interesting one. The Forsaken’s story wasn’t stagnant. It was one of the longest and overreaching areas when compared to others, in my opinion. It started from a ruined people trying to reclaim their homeland. To helping strike at the Lich King. (I’m ignoring Wrathgate for reasons below because it can derail the point i’m making.) to becoming a quasi-forced expansionist in retaking former lands and subjugating them under control of the Forsaken. And so on.

Battle for Azeroth shattered that. It’s episodic content was a complete mockery to both Forsaken and Night Elves primarily - and all other Horde and Alliance races as well. It didn’t show how Calia Menethil was going to get back her station - and she will, going by it - and it doesn’t show how the Forsaken, who have a sizeable amount of Sylvanas supports aside, will allow someone who’s been gone for a decade, done nothing, will clap and cheer for her return because the story and developers can’t put effort in making storylines and characters more than two dimensional.

It also partially butchered Sylvanas character, imho. <- I don’t mind talking about this.

Calia Menethil could’ve undergone better things in response. She could’ve actually been Forsaken by the Light. She could’ve reached out and talked to Lillian or whatever. More importantly she could’ve been apart of a quasi-desolate council where the big players of the Forsaken now democratically preside over New-Lordaeron’s internal and external affairs.

There was so much to actually write that could’ve made Calia Menethil a good character. But instead she’s become a Mary Sue that warped and changed how and what the Light does to undead and people solely so that she could both be resurrected and become Queen of Lordaeron.

Seriously. What.

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I really have to commend what you’ve written , Mardecai.

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The synopsis of my post is this: Mardecai angry light lady bad reeee.

Thanks though, I appreciate it. All in all I just want a good story for World of Warcraft. It’s shown that it can do it remarkably.

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I really do, too but man Blizzard is making it really hard for me to keep on trucking.

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Weren’t canonically a large portion of the forsaken suppose to be elves? That’s why there was so much speculation about an undead elf subrace iirc.

tbh Calia’s introduction is a lot like Varians which I’ve never liked either. Suddenly the king is back and everyone just goes along with it and if you want to find out how it all happened go read some side story outside the game.

Calia is a little better than Varian, I’ll give it that. At least she had some role in the game, although only for one expansion and only for players that played the priest class.

Otherwise if Blizzard had brought her along sooner, perhaps make her a Forsaken from the start or have us there when she is killed and later raised. There’s a lot that could have been to make her actually feel connected to the community she’s supposed to be leading all of a sudden.

Also whoo a new Forsaken lore character that doesn’t look at all like the player character

BOOOORRRRING

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That’s a good comparison. And just like how Calia is basically an alliance character, they introduced Varian as sort of a half-orc character with his whole Lo’gosh persona and scarred macho barbarian king aesthetic.

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And i was just thinking “why do all these living people think they can have a say on our new queen” Then I see your post and think that you hit the nail on the head.

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So you guys are saying Calia is a maybe for you?

yea that’s gonna be a no from me, dawg

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