My faith and resolve are strong.
I log on and keep trying to customize our officer ranks.
No option appears for it.
Still wondering why.
We’ve said how this affects us.
We’ve suggested compromises.
C’mon Bliz…
JJ is retconning Rian.
You can retcon guilds.
Here’s another post from back in September that seems pretty clear:
This poster wants more options for guild management. Specifically, they want to set the ranks how they like, especially to silence members who need a time-out, and a rank that can see officer chat but can’t comment. They also want master loot back.
While I personally feel rank permissions are the most pressing need, I know that a lot of guilds sincerely aren’t happy with the removal of master loot. I see no reason why master loot couldn’t at least be used in full guild groups. Guilds have always had instances on “farm” for gearing up. Why their ability to pass out loot as they see fit has been removed, I’ll never figure out.
I’m in the mood for a song right now. Yeah, I’m supposed to be quoting posts from the thread that have specific feedback in them, but I’m just not in the mood for that tonight. So, here’s a little ABBA, courtesy of Venjin:
I feel like most of my fellow GM’s have indeed up and gone from the thread (and possibly the game), but I’m going to keep posting until we get our permissions back the way they were. I wouldn’t object at all if Blizz implemented some (or all) of the other suggestions made here, but permissions need to be fixed first.
It does feel like it. Since Blizzard has basically confirmed they are trying to figure out how to fix permissions on a technical level, there isn’t much more for us to do but wait.
And beg for guild halls. (Plz don’t listen to the player housing people, Blizzard! This is an MMO. We should be encouraged to be around other players. I will defend their right to have a one man guild and solo access to a guild hall. Please don’t make me explain why a player house is not appealing to those of us that play socially. It’s really super obvious.)
Blizzard: You say you still need more feedback because “reasons”
As I’ve stated here before in multiple posts, I (we) have said it all already Blizzard, you simply need to start reading this thread.
Having said that, I will post yet again on how my particular guild uses (rather, once used) multi layered guild permissions, and why that silly “is officer” check box has made it difficult to nearly impossible for us to manage our guild that way we always done so since late in Vanilla.
What brought the following to my mind (sadly) was the recent loss of yet another guildie to the great beyond.
I’ll explain.
Please bear with me a bit:
In our guild, as a new member, if you stay with us, are active, and show any sort of inclination to be social or helpful, you will be ranked after approx 30 days. The 30 days are subjective and depends completely on the individual, how much initiative they show etc…How far and how fast you rank is also dependent on the individual, how motivated they are, and how far they’d like to advance in rank and in guild responsibilities.
It’s “a matter of trust” as a great songster once crooned.
Little to no trust will probably gain you no rank. A little initiative, helpfulness, etc… often equals a bit of trust and will gain you a rank.
So basically, the more active / helpful you are, the faster you will rank, and the more privilege you would gain with each rank.
Each rank added slightly more privilege and or responsibility.
Why did losing another member of our guild to death have to do with guild permissions?
In our guild we consider you “once a BloodOath member, always a BloodOath member” as long as you were in good standing with the guild etc…
We generally don’t remove certain inactive toons if the guildie was active and in good standing with the guild.
What to do with those inactive toons that may be ranked quite high? They could pose a threat if an inactive account gets hacked. This has actually happened to us.
We tried demoting toons, however this can hurt feelings and cause drama.
Our solution: An honorary rank.
We took all of our absent guildies in good standing and “promoted” them to “Eternal Member”
“Eternal Member” has no permissions beyond editing the guild note and talking in guild chat. No bank permissions whatsoever, no guild repair, etc…no nothing. It just (hopefully) sounds good and is technically speaking, a rank up.
We like to think of it as a sort of a safe house for our absent friends that not only keeps the guild safe, but (hopefully) shows our missing guildies that we cared enough about them to not only keep their toons in the guild, (thus providing them a guild home upon their return) but to give them a place of respect and honor in their absence.
In the last four months or so, we’ve had two guildies pass on. I mentioned Jah (Jack) the other day in this thread, we lost the other guildie (Knighttempler) last holiday season.
When a member dies in BloodOath (and sadly, we have had this happen multiple times over the years) we generally promote their now inactive toon to “Eternal Member” to honor them, and to protect the guild from any hacking attempts.
I’ll be moving Jah there soon. I just haven’t been able to bring myself to do so yet.
We also have a rank for those who are still active, were once officers, but who have elected to not take on all the responsibilities of an officer anymore.
That rank “Honor Counsel” is also more “honorary” than anything else. Unlike it’s cousin “Eternal Member” the active honorary rank actually has some permissions and privileges attached to it and former high ranked officers reside there as long as they remain active in the guild. This again is a technical “promotion” and avoids demotions that can result in hurt feelings etc…
I suppose that the “is officer” fiasco really does not effect this “honor rank” thing we have going directly. Those particular ranks have their purposes, and those can still be (mostly) fulfilled even with the broken state of permissions.
The one thing I can say about these afore mentioned ranks and the “new and improved” useless permissions, is that if the ranks had not been so flexible when we created “Eternal Member” and “Honor Counsel” I am not 100% certain we’d have even thought of creating them in the first place, and even if we had, the concept would have been largely meaningless as ranks themselves have now become almost entirely meaningless. Your either an officer or your not.
On to a bit more relevance:
The Readers Digest version of our ranks and their former permissions and rolls:
Mortal:
Edit public note, guild speak, access to one guild tab (bags, pets, some starter stuff) at one item withdrawn per day, 150 gold guild repair per day.
Adventurer:
Invite new members, edit public note, guild speak, access to two guild tabs at one item withdrawn per day per tab and 250 gold per day for guild repair.
Hero:
Invite members, edit public note, guild speak, access to six guild tabs at 2-3 item withdrawn per day per tab 350 gold guild repair per day.
Ascendant:
Invite members, edit public note, guild speak, access to six guild tabs at six items withdrawn per day per tab 500 gold guild repair per day. This was our “training rank” for those who showed the desire to become officers. This rank was not considered being an officer, but the jump off point for becoming one. Those who ranked this far were expected to take on some officer rolls.
There are (were) a few more ranks. Each with increasing permissions, privilege and responsibility. Not a one of our officer ranks fit within Blizzard’s foolish “is officer” lump box.
Once you progressed through those ranks, you come at last to “Titan.” If you’ve ranked there, it’s as far as you can go unless I myself quit or…die…
As a Titan, you can do quite a bit of what the Gm can do except a few things like change the MotD. That’s a “Lady Sovereign” (Guild Leader) only task. As things are now, I trust those that are already in place as “is officer” enough so that I am reasonably confident that no one with try to change MotD or delete chat messages, or in short to use or abuse any permission they did not have before "is officer’ was a thing.
With the lumped together check box foolishness, the problem that arose for us is, is that most of our trusted officers are not currently playing because BfA is a (in the opinion of those not playing in our guild) a questionable Xpac at best. They don’t like it, therefore they don’t play. Many in our guild are chomping at the bit for Classic, but Classic has not as yet been released so they are either not playing much, or not playing at all until Classic is release this coming summer. At present with the state of guild permissions, I would not and will not attempt to recruit new members that may or may not be interested in filling these now vacant positions.
Why? Our ranking system no longer works because “is officer” gives out way more than we are prepared to give to anyone.
For us, serious recruitment has pretty much stopped. Ranking has virtually ceased. Speaking for me, I am not giving anyone what is for us as a guild, Guild Leader exclusive permissions just because Blizzard made a cute little check box instead of useful permissions.
Well Blizzard, there it is for your reading pleasure
Again.
If your having issues understanding any of these well written, very informative posts, (Not necessarily mine, as I tend to ramble) I strongly and urgently suggest removing those rose colored things you’ve got pasted on your face, and putting on your reality reading glasses instead
Those rose colored specs may be comfortable, quite pretty, and even fashionable, but they aren’t doing you any favors.
Druunah
GM: BloodOath
Fumel.
I would be willing to bet that, like myself, they aren’t gone, merely watching and waiting.
We’ve all been at this for a very long time. It’ll soon be a year since Orsiris originally wrote: “Whose bright idea was to lump all these permissions under a single check box?” on July 17th 2018
I would ask anyone reading this that if you are out there watching and waiting, that you please just drop a quick note here on this thread to let Blizzard (and the every diligent Fumel) know that you are there, and you are still concerned about “is officer”
Thank you
And my personal thanks to Fumel who has, in the face of time discouragement, and several disappointments, kept at helping to keep this thread alive by keeping so many our ideas and suggestions visible where Blizzard (and everyone) can see them.
Thank you
Here’s a nice post from October. (Yes! I’ve made it to October!) Again, not a specific suggestion, but a definite reminder and plea:
The tools we need are separated guild permissions. Beyond that, roster improvement, recruitment overhaul, and guild perks would all be welcome. Specifics about each of these things have been made over and over in this thread. I would like to think someone there at Blizz has been reading all this and bookmarking the more specific posts, but I’ve been wrong before. ![:frowning_face:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning_face.png?v=6" ":frowning_face:")
Colin Powell says that optimism is a force-multiplier.
Good leaders hope for the best and plan for the worst.
Blizzard, we do need granular guild controls, a better guild roster (iLevel instead of achieve points, pls?), an overhaul of the in-game guild recruitment, and feathers. My tauren brethren need them.
We’re still lurking, Fumel. Just avoiding obvious “bump” posts because I hear they can get things knackered, and most all that needs to be said has been said. Repeatedly…
-Revert to Granular, Rank-By-Rank Customizeable Permissions
-Some manner of guild inviting while the applicant is offline
-Noticeable and Meaningful Guild Perks (cough Guild Hall cough)
-A return to many ways of sorting the roster ( Ach. points, iLvl, Level, class, alphabetically…you really couldn’t have too many choices, with this one)
Those are some of the big ones I see repeatedly. I may have missed a few, I haven’t finished my first coffee yet. x__X
This is very, very true. And I certainly don’t want to sound like I’m criticizing those who feel they have nothing more to add. Or even those who’ve given up on this thread entirely. It does feel like beating one’s head against the wall, and eventually you get tired of it.
But it certainly wouldn’t hurt for people to post if they have an idea for recruitment, or guild halls, or the roster, that they want to bring up or flesh out. If they have an idea regarding permissions–perhaps additional permissions to the ones we used to have–posting such would be spectacular.
And, as dense as Blizzard has been on this subject, maybe it wouldn’t hurt just to simply repeat ourselves. Which is essentially what I’ve been doing since I began quoting earlier posts.
If I thought we could just state our case and be done with it, I would have posted once and never looked back. But we all know that if this thread dies, Blizzard will claim that means we’ve adapted to the permissions changes and are okay with them now. Which couldn’t be further from the truth. So, I shall continue posting–quotes, responses, whatever–until either the permissions are reverted or the thread is locked. I welcome other posters’ input, of course, but I don’t expect or demand it.
perhaps i’m not understanding what you mean… because this is currently possible. you just click the column to change the sorting preference.
You can sort by Achievement Points, or Profession, that’s it.
or character level, or last online (and i’m sure there are others which i can’t remember, i’m not logged in to check)
I’m looking at it right now, and all I see in the drop down is Ach points and professions, at the top right of the Roster pane.
You can sort by clicking on the various columns, too. I usually sort by last online, though then puts the currently online characters at the bottom of the page (under the ones that haven’t been on for months/years).
Ahh, I see, with the tabs. Wonder why those aren’t in the drop-down, though…
Eh, not really my gripe- just putting it forward since I’d seen others posting about sorting. It may have been changed at some point during the year long thread. ![:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:")
Here’s another short, direct bit of feedback from October.
Clearly the poster’s priorities are Permissions and Chat Logs.
We all agree on the Permissions, I’m pretty sure, but just in case anyone out there loves the all-in-one “is officer” option, make an “Advanced” tab. GM’s can then choose to assign permissions as they wish, or keep things as they are now.
There have been a number of suggestions throughout the thread regarding chat. Many would like more channels, plus the ability to make persistent chat optional. And that’s the key word for just about everything. Give us options, Blizz, and we’ll happily manage our guilds in the way that most fits each individual guild.
Bliz, it’s been a rough week.
For Easter, my children buried their favorite pet. This is the first time they’re dealing with grief and I find myself prioritizing their needs at the moment.
I logged on today to hopefully see a stealth hotfix, wherein we could re-implement our tiered-officer structure and begin recruiting.
Denied again.
Just curious, is NBA referee Scott Foster a part of your staff? Just wondering where the complete lack of meaningful action is coming from.
I’m so sorry to hear of your loss. It’s doubly bad that you have to help your kids through it. Hope the rest of the week goes much better. (I know better than to hope Tuesday’s maintenance will do anything for our problem here.)
I am sorry for your loss, and as a fellow parent, it’s difficult to shepherd your children down this path. You are doing the right thing to walk with them on this journey.
I am encouraged by the rest of you being in this post. Let’s keep it up! We must persist, even when the odds are against us. Our guilds are depending on us, and we must do all we can.
Regards the sorting of the roster
We cannot even see iLevel on the guild roster currently, and that is a huge oversight, in my opinion, on what is relevant. We’re not a hardcore raiding guild, not by any stretch, but being able to see someone’s iLevel without an addon would be amazing, since that drives decisions on what they need to gear or are capable of.
Do any of you guild leaders actually use achieve points for anything?