The new Guild UI and Permissions...yikes (Part 1)

Fumel-arathor · February 26, 2019, 4:29am

Still pulling up older posts to try to get them the attention they deserve. Okay, so maybe all I’m doing is getting them ignored twice. Whatever.

Here’s a nice succinct one from August explaining exactly how the permissions were used by the poster’s guild and why the current permissions don’t work for them:

Yes, I know Venjin is a regular poster here, and he’s constantly imploring Blizz to fix this mess. That doesn’t make this old post any less relevant.

Fix the permissions, Blizz.

Druunah-ravencrest · February 26, 2019, 6:46am

Still here Blizz.

You may not care about guilds but I (we) do.

Like some have posted recently, my guild is pretty quiet now. We’re still getting new members, but our regulars dislike the mess that is BfA and we can’t manage our guild the way we have always done so since Vanilla. Sadly, after all these years, many of hem have called it quits and un-subbed.

Like many others, our guild has always managed to keep people interested in the game during either content droughts or even poor content.

Even during WoD.

Interested people keep playing and therefore keep paying.

You.

Without the tools we need to operate the way we wish, we can no longer keep as many people interested in the game.

Uninterested people don’t play. They therefore don’t pay.

You.

Blizz in it’s questionable attitude (and silence) of late, combined with what may arguably be the least popular Wow xpac to date, along with crippling many guilds, has done the work themselves of depriving themselves of subs.

I was under the impression that big corporations liked to make money…

Venjin-bronzebeard · February 26, 2019, 8:11pm

Can’t decide which is worse.

Anthem’s loading screen wait times.

Or.

The wait time for a response on this.

Revert the permissions.
Save the cheerleader.
Save the world.

Venjin-bronzebeard · February 26, 2019, 8:17pm

WTF.

In the time since this thread began, Roman Reigns not only had a recurrence of Leukemia, but has also since undergone treatment and is now in remission.

And yet Bliz has managed to do nothing except sack the only blue who cared.

Please revert the permissions

Brahmina-khadgar · February 26, 2019, 11:29pm

That is a brilliant–and somewhat disturbing–observation.

Also, your use of .gifs is excellent.

Blizz’s lack of response…not so much.

Fumel-arathor · February 27, 2019, 2:14am

Here is another comprehensive post from back in August. The poster started another thread to voice their concerns. Fortunately, they also quoted themselves since the old forums are now read-only and I can’t quote the original thread. (I also can’t post links, so I’ve had to do some editing.)

Polgara:

I provided my feedback in a separate thread, instead of having it buried in here. I would encourage you to do the same as well (link removed so I could post this)

I also quote it here in the event that someone who can actually do something is reading this thread:

08/24/2018 12:50 PMPosted by Polgara
Apparently we’ve been asked to provide feedback regarding the problems created by the changes to guild management. The fact that these changes were intentional is very surprising. I’m assuming that the architects of this new structure, if they run guilds, run them in a specific way and felt that everyone either must, or should, manage them in a similar fashion. This would be incorrect, and apparent to anyone who took the time to read through the thread here: (link removed so I could post this)

While I see the promise in the new system, in the short-term is has been a problem for many guilds. As we have been asked to “Let us know what problems you’re having and we’ll do what we can to solve those problems”, I’ll do so here:

The granular permissions previously available have been replaced by an ‘officer checkbox’. While this may not have been the intention, the net result is that an ‘officer’ has now been defined by Blizzard as someone who will always be able to:

Access officer channels
Remove people from voice chat
Delete other people’s chat messages
Delete other people’s guild events
View and edit officer notes
Edit Guild info
Edit Message of the Day

We are no longer able to define what an officer is. In our guild, prior to these changes, we functionally had 4 different levels/types of officers. This is no longer possible.

Rank 1: Co-GM rank, which has all the permissions of the GM (still possible)
Rank 2: Officer with advanced permissions but no access to Guild Info or MOTD (not possible now)
Rank 3: Officer with similar permissions to Rank 2, but cannot remove members (still possible)
Rank 4: Access to read officer chat, able to delete guild events, read-only access to officer notes. This is a rank of people who are trusted and want to help, but should not be full officers. (not possible now)

While the following does not impact my guilds, they were mentioned in the thread I referenced previously:

Some guilds were using officer chat for role playing – now they cannot allow access to it without making everyone officers. Some were using it as a read only tool for raiding (the leaders could post, team members cannot). There are many other instances where the changes have had an impact, and I would encourage you to read through the long thread regarding this.

It has been stated that changes were made to facilitate guilds and communities being able to exist using the same infrastructure. That’s fine – however the net tangible result (if you look at the other thread) is that people are now using Discord for things they used to do in-game. You don’t foster and build a sense of community by removing the tools that have been used to build and manage guilds, which are the backbone of communities in WoW.

Let’s take persistent guild chat as an example: You have functionally changed guild chat from being a live conversation to being a message board where we are unable to manage the messages. Everything that is said now must be said with the knowledge that those words will last forever. This is a fundamental change to what guild chat is. I realize the path here is forward, and that you are unlikely to go backwards – but, if you were intent upon making this change, the transition to it could have been handled a bit more thoughtfully – and even now, it can be improved:

If guild chat now functions by using the same infrastructure as communities, then why am I able to manage my communities through the Battle(dot)net client, where I can remove messages and use the other tools, but not guild chat?

Being able to remove messages and manage the ‘guild chat message board’ through Battle(dot)net would be helpful. This would also allow us to participate in guild chat using the mobile client – there are some of us who miss this. If the infrastructure is there, why not take advantage of it?

Why not either allow guilds to toggle persistent chat on /off, or at the very least, set a length of time to keep the history?

I could go on, but there is an entire thread relating to this issue and I have a life to get back to, a business to run, and a game that I would rather be playing than providing feedback on. Thank you in advance on the off chance that anyone who can do anything actually reads this.

Yes, there is an entire thread about the issue–this thread. But I can’t really blame anyone for trying to start another thread in the hope of catching someone’s attention. Sadly, the tactic doesn’t seem to have worked. But the poster’s ideas are still relevant.

Fix the permissions, Blizz.

Takoda-kul-tiras · February 27, 2019, 3:12am

Link to Polgara’s alternate thread on the old forums

Fumel-arathor · February 27, 2019, 4:02am

Thanks for posting that.

You know, if I’d been posting just to improve my forum level (like I’ve been accused of doing by a particular person in this thread), I would have been able to post links myself. So, maybe my agenda here has nothing to do with forum levels, ya think?

Fix the permissions, Blizz.

Altherei-wyrmrest-accord · February 27, 2019, 3:50pm

Some acknowledgement of this issue would be immensely appreciated, Blizz. I may not have a horse in this race as I don’t lead a guild, but quite frankly I have even less interest in running one with how the permissions have been gutted and the issue unaddressed. If you truly love guilds and communities, it makes no sense for you to strip away a guild leader’s ability to effectively run their guild the way that makes sense for them. Guilds are not cut-and-paste; they are not all run the same way. And for a lot of guilds, these changes have been immensely damaging- just look at all the replies in this thread.

And fix the permissions. Or at least -talk- to us, please.

Dlaciabia-sisters-of-elune · February 28, 2019, 1:37am

Seriously, is someone there holding people hostage? Start blinking your location in Morse code and we’ll have sammiches dropped on your location.

Fumel-arathor · February 28, 2019, 2:44am

No, they aren’t holding anyone hostage. They fired them all instead. At least, they fired the one person who actually replied to us.

Oh, excuse me, I mean, “laid off”. Because no one apparently gets “fired” anymore (except on some old reality show).

Fix the permissions, Blizz.

Venjin-bronzebeard · February 28, 2019, 11:23pm

Without so much as a whimper…still we have nothing but silence.

But lo, I still have a moment to ask for the permissions to be reverted!

Moirasha-medivh · March 1, 2019, 1:00am

I thought I’d stop by and see if we’ve gotten a response… and nothing. Really? I mean this is stupid. Oh well, kinda like the rest of WoW right now. Not really happy with it. Roll on 9.0 at this rate.

Brahmina-khadgar · March 1, 2019, 2:20am

Don’t you know that no one but the “five” of us who have been “keeping this thread alive” are the only ones who care about the issue, and everyone else has “adjusted and moved on”? You’re apparently not supposed to be coming here to check on things because “no one else cares.”

Honestly, you’re more than likely right that this won’t be changed for another expansion or two, and then it’ll be promoted as a new and exciting revamp of the guild functions rather than a reversion to what we used to have.

Assuming they fix it at all.

Dlaciabia-sisters-of-elune · March 1, 2019, 4:44am

Made me LOL…but I actually wouldn’t put it past them… < rueful grin emote >

Druunah-ravencrest · March 1, 2019, 1:24pm

“promoted” (Is officer?)

Oh the irony…

Blizz. Please fix the permissions.

Cladis-korgath · March 1, 2019, 1:33pm

They fired dead weight.

Brahmina-khadgar · March 1, 2019, 3:59pm

Interesting perspective. The Blizzard employee who actually responded to this mega-thread was “dead weight”. Gives us a good idea what Blizzard actually thinks of our concerns, doesn’t it?

Cladis-korgath · March 1, 2019, 4:01pm

If by popping in and not contributing anything beyond “I extended the thread so you guys can stop flooding GD with more threads” is considered a decent response, then sure, you’re right and I apologize.

Not to mention his last response was August 18th.

Oddly enough that’s all he really ever contributed to any thread besides a joke thread.

Lejk-nagrand · March 1, 2019, 4:07pm

I somewhat agree with that.

I mean, they are Community “Managers” after all. They’re seeming employed to “manage” the community.
Not have any kind of meaniful dialogue with it.