When I raided at the beginning of BfA as a frost mage, I had multiple talent options that were viable, but maybe my class just got lucky.
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Sort of depends on the class.
As a Paladin I had a ton of freedom in Vanilla because my 100% vital healing talents only needed 20 points in Holy. I could go 30 for optimal and get that 5% crit, but that still left 21-31 talents that i could assign basically anywhere I wanted while being a full healer.
Other classes had less freedom if they wanted to be able to perform at a competitive level with other people of the same class.
Same as with the modern game. Some classes have less mandatory talents than others.
Who’s G’thuun? I was referring to BWL Razorgore.
In regards to the statement of the last raid being hardest, Id wonder if thats just because the gear tredmill stops.
Okay, “putting aside such flawed thinking,” one person being a moron doesn’t mean the raid was hard. Onyxia is not objectively harder than modern bosses.
Is managing 40 players not hard? Are you a raid leader?
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He’s the last boss of the first raid of BFA.
Also calling mechanics “hard” because most people are stupid, doesn’t say much about the mechanic but more about the players.
I have a hard enough time managing the 4 murderhobos in my tabletop RPG group.
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Yes but that raid encounter is a progression of 15 years of player experience… if you played guitar for 15 years I would expect more out of you in year 15 than I would in year 1.
I’m not sure if there is another layer of this mechanic on mythic difficulty since I only did G’huun on heroic, but I found it not that hard. It was a cool mechanic and I enjoyed working together with my orb partner (our raid leader), but it wasn’t really hard.
only for emerald nightmare… which is an aberration in itself, likely due to M+ being a new concept at the time.
compare world-first KJ kill with world 500th and you don’t have a 20 ilvl difference.
We’re not talking about whether managing 40 players is hard, though. We’re talking about the difficulty of the raids, right?
If you want to say “Vanilla was more difficult for me to get full clears on because I’m an incompetent RL who can’t manage 40 morons,” then that’s perfectly fair and valid, but it in no way implies the actual content was more difficult than modern raids.
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managing player depend on how hard the stuff they need to be managed is.
ex geddon : ‘‘if you have the bomb, move out of the raid’’… you could have 500 people to manage, it would be pretty easy.
M jaina: ‘’ the 3 people with avalanche run together as a group, unless avalanche happens in melee in which case it’s FFA, try to clear as much fire as you can without stepping on people doing ballista/bomb, let the tank be back in a good position before the avalanche end if they cannot taunt swap / if ring of frost is comming immediatly after avalanche and yada yada yada ‘’ is a lot harder, even if you only have 20 people.
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All you have to do is go watch a team fight the four horsemen or any vanilla raid boss and then go watch methods world first kill on Jaina and see that modern is much more difficult than vanilla even if only looking at it optically.
Not every one doing current progression have been raiding for 15 years.
I never said it’s the hardest mechanic, but in terms of complexity, very few things compare in Vanilla’s raiding scene.
Did you actually watch any of the world first videos or read about what the first few guilds did to acheive those kills - the insane stuff leading up to it as well as the strats and wipes in the hundreds? It was definitely very hard and still is. Most guilds can’t even get past first boss on Mythic. The amount of true Mythic guilds that exist are relatively small in comparison to the amount of guilds that raid but only up through Heroic, and the people that do Mythic raids successfully have to commit a lot to be successful.
So they haven’t been playing the game for 15 years… but they’ve been playing video games for that long likely.
And more so… they haven’t been playing for 15 years but they have been playing since wrath… or Cata… or X which means they started playing at a higher level considering the game has progressively gotten mechanically more challenging “ish”
So you’re saying it’s impossible for someone to be in a pushing content guild if BFA is their first MMO?
I just find it hard to believe that there is a large population of players that are pushing mythic progression who are playing WoW for the first time in 2019.
Never said it was impossible.
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not everyone has been raiding for 15 years… true… but even normal-mode instance have more mechanic that classic raid instance… the learning start earlier.
in term of organization, strategy and execution, vanilla doesn’t even come close to modern… the only thing harder in classic is handling loot drama and spending hours farming grey trash stuff to get gold.
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From my experience you can ignore many of those mechanics or just fail at them and still finish the dungeon. There are exceptions of course. It really feels like Blizzard wants to have things going on all the time during a boss to make it less “boring”, but at the same time wants that everyone can be successful even if they are braindead.
When gear gets better those braindead players can manage to complete heroic, mythic and even some m+ dungeons without getting much better.
I don’t think this is a very good system, but I do understand why they keep pushing it.