There is nothing to hide here, healing dk is a nightmare no matter is you are good dk or bad and you don’t need to heal bear+bear heals the group from just pressing their buttons.
Aaaand bear takes no dmg
The only time healers should be worried about the BDk is when he has no runic power. Beyond that, in the current state of tanks, BDks should be able to handle themselves. I love healing good BDks, Renewing Mist + EnvM on pull and then basically ignore them.
I’ve seen so many times as dk runs into a pack and dies in under two seconds, same with dh to be honest, but that will never happens with bear.
Guardian druids its hands down the best tank right now, stop coming out with excuses and mental gymnastics.
If your response is directed at me I don’t know what you’re talking about. I never said bears weren’t the best right now and I never said BDk couldn’t mess up and die instantly. I said I love healing BDk bc good ones require very little healing at all and that if a healer understands how BDk works they won’t panic over the HP bar. There is no mental gymnastics there.
I think the whole topic is frustrating for BDK, warr/monk maybe; and even an old chill dude like me is getting frustrated and seeing red where there is none.
My take is, BDK has the tools albeit some taken away since SL, but BDK clearly need more dps as a priority, no one can debate.
And the best defense is a good offense- more DPS means mobs die faster, means knowing I need fewer defensives. And means I’m getting invites to groups instead of being redheaded step-child because group members want someone they assume has high dps, all other metrics aside.
Meta tank in m+ has always been the highest dps tank first and foremost.
BDKs running in and dying means no DRW or even rune tap hehe.
(I saw a bear run in and die first pull 22 Underrot, I presume he was in wrong form 
)
I absolutely agree, and it’s not just tanks. A lot of specs need massive buffs to their DPS output. I really don’t understand why blizzard is so adverse to handing out buffs.
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I don’t see the point in pretending this is true. A guardian tank can overpull and die just as easily as anyone else. Happened twice in a Freehold I was healing yesterday. He calmed down after that…
I literally guffawed out loud. Not only does this happen all the time, it’s one of the hardest things to play around with the spec.
Bears have damage. That’s pretty much it. Their primary defensive has been propping up the spec for 3 expansions by turning damage into self absorbs. Preventing damage > healing damage, always. So when bear damage is good (like with our current OP set bonus) our survival is good. Coupled with perfect dovetail with Exodia with brez and curse dispel.
Don’t worry, though, season 3 they’ll bring back AV or something and our set bonus will revolve around swipe and bears will be crap again.
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As much as I don’t agree with this, especially coming from a 3200 bear, I’ll bite.
So you agree that buffing DPS for non-bears would be a major proponent in solving the meta gap.
Can you explicitly state that for devs viewing this thread?
Remember, Blizzard said it themselves during the Diablo 4 dumpster fire… balance is not a destination, it is a journey. They have given up on ever trying to have balance, so they are ok with balance always changing. It keeps people playing longer if they have to level/gearup a different class.
Yea, the mythic+ meta are always super inflated by a certain spec/class
Every single one, except for SL season 3/4, there was no problematic tank in there at all and we should go back to that
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Kinda.
Like I said, damage being good is what’s keeping bears in S tank instead of A. All the tanks are pretty close, but obviously Bears for Exodia the best.
Any real shift in this seasons meta would have to see other tanks overtuned enough to overcome that fit. That’s not good game design either. Having bears be the best tank for this season (like pallies last season) is fine, in a vacuum.
Don’t take me the wrong way, but I feel you may be insulated from the reality other tanks are facing; eg; see my pictures I added throughout this thread. Not a monk in sight, 2 warrs(one being a guildie), and the only BDK I found doing keys I was plenty good for at 2800 looking for +21/22 was a 3100 BDK guildie to the group leader.
The damage gap is huge, and bear’s ability to do dmg when BDK for example must run away is pretty steady whereas in theory all I have is flimsy dots ticking on say first lust pull of Vortex, and that dungeon is easy imo. I can only imagine what’s possible with steady bear dps+lust on that pull. You see what I mean?
The lower dps tanks need their dps buffed so the player base sees this and invites instead of * gestures at the data I’ve included in this thread.
It’s especially hard for pugs. It’s not so easy to know when they need help or when they’re just being normal blood DKs with their yo-yo health.
If you run with one regularly you kind of get to know when they really need help vs when they don’t
That data may not show the whole picture. I always level all the tanks, BDK is actually my favorite tank, but even if they did more dps than bears and were sturdy enough to stand in with ibf up, they’d still be second pick because Exodia.
Also, we all knew bears were going to be big when they fixed their talent trees and it was pretty late in the season, so meta-chasing was pretty easy. It only takes about a week of m+ to get something to ~442, so that contributes as well.
The delta between tanks performance wise is less than the data would lead you to believe.
Like last season, bears were the “worst tanks”. And they were, for that dungeon pool and that meta. But they didn’t get huge buffs to any talents coming into this season, but the dungeons are all many mobs that do mostly physical damage. The worst profile for DKs.
This whole soup is more complicated than just looking representation. The power gap between blood DK and bear today is way less than it was at the end of shadowlands, for example.
I can’t tell from that comment if you’re over-insulated, or takin’ the cope, but it’s a bad take, my friend. 
I multiclass pretty hard and I play at a high level most every season. I played bear last season too. As well as prot warrior, Pally, BDK. Etc.
Insulated from what, exactly? You’re assuming bears are just crazy OP and if only BDKs did 20k more dps they’d be the meta and we’d all be in the land of milk and honey.
There are many factors at play here. More than you’re willing to admit, or maybe they’re difficult to see. Maybe my POV is privileged because I play all the tanks, but damage isn’t why people don’t invite BDK. It’s everything to do with how they’re designed and how the pulls change in that group.
Bears are shallow. There’s a lot of nuance there, but they’re probably the simplest designed tanks. They either are tuned to live, or they can’t. There’s no combination of buttons I could press to live in a 28 vault last season, for example. That simplicity is a double edged sword.
And, imho, more stuff should be designed that way. The mage and Pally reworks give me hope we’ll see more of that.
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nope, you’re being hyperbolic.
This isn’t about the past, last season any further than yes, we’d like to see that back again. Unfortunately, that is not the reality, thus this thread exists, with data.
I am not looking to be top dog(bear?) I want to get a reasonable amount of invites, and not just bottom of the barrel groups that will take anyone.
Please read my Original Post that started this thread.
We know bears are the easiest tanks to play, that is not the question. I do not envy you for that.
And I’ve been playing coy for a bit, but so you know, as a 3200 bear, advocating for the meta tank amidst this thread, and the data I’ve collected is bad form(druid joke).
If your group doesn’t know to pop a defensive during the cast then root removal after, they should not be there.
if not first, you’re last. Especially when gear is as plentiful as this.
Make it take like 10 weeks to “max” out a new character, and you bet there would be more diversity.
(444-450 ilvl.)