This is where balancing gameplay and RPG elements comes into play – I don’t think Covenants work as anything other than a “package deal.” There is still a meaningful choice in Class Abilities. You might find Fleshcraft isn’t great for you, but the Class Ability is strong and you like the aesthetic of the Necrolords. It makes you really think about your decision. Not all players will struggle to pick a Covenant, but if the system makes it feels like it’s your choice, the system did a good job.
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Anyone find the Necrolord ability completely underpowered? 4 second cast, 20% shield given no “powerful” corpses around. Garbage for pvp as you’ll get interrupted or take that much in the cast time, not so good in raids either as some bosses have no adds to fight. M+ maybe for the healer, but groups would prefer the go-go speed buffs. All this in culmination, its a 2 minute cd, which is extremely long for something so lackluster.
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I think Fleshcraft is too weak as it is.
First off, it should be instant and apply the full value of the shield. The theme of the spell is cool, but it needs that extra something to elevate it. Passively, if it automatically “devoured” nearby corpses within a 30 yard radius and “ripped away parts” from nearby enemies, you could have it empower your current cast (more shielding). From here, you have an on-demand shield with quite a lot of health (~30% max health on average). It would be better in many ways than Steward’s Phial , but Steward’s Phial would retain its niche and have some more advantages.
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Honestly I have a feeling it’s going to be the go to ability for mythic+, especially if venythir gets changed to a travel not a port.
The 4s channel is a bit high, but with so many mobs around you can start every hard pull/boss with 50% hp shields so that’s a lot of healer dps uptime for burning packs and bosses since they may not have to heal at all for the first 15 seconds.
IMO the Kyrian ability should also dispel magic effects and be 25% hp.
The fae one is the odd one out to me, it’s so similar but more lame than venythir. It should be more unique.
All races and classes and specs should be freely swappable. Some classes have better racials than others. Why should ONLY NE’s be the meta for M+?
Some classes are slightly better at AoE than others. Not fair! I like to min/max and the fact that the game isn’t totally balanced in every situation for every class is a slap in the face. Why should my choices make me less than optimal at all times in every circumstance?
Some classes are better at PvP than others. Not fair! Why are you punishing me Blizz…??? I should be able to swap on the fly. I’m the kind of guy that has to be the very best. I won’t re-roll to FoTM because you’ll probably nerf them down the road. GG Blizz!!
Some classes are better against ST. Not fair! We should have the option to swap because it feels bad knowing I’m not optimal in every situation!!!
This is what you sound like.
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No. It is an example of a rational person to try to find a compromise that:
A) Doesn’t upend the entire system based on any single play style.
B) Allows for the recognition that in previous iterations (most recently, azerite respeccing) can become exceedingly costly. Therefore, while the reset itself may be viewed as harshly punative, you’ll notice I’ve placed two important caveats to prevent said “respec inflation” from getting out of hand.
1) A cost reset every season/tier
2) A cap on actual cost
Granted, we do not yet know the actual mechanics of changing covenants and the presumption in this hypothetical is a simple gold cost. So that almost renders the entire discussion moot.
In addition, you seem to have also overlooked that, as I mentioned, alts will be able to select a covenant from the get-go. Thus, this allows one to min-max to their heart’s content without having to even respec their main.
Example:
RL: “Aw man, we’re going to need X covenant on this fight. It sure would help!”
Player: “Hey, I got it covered. I’ve got x class/spec that can handle it!”
And FYI, it’s not just punative on min-maxers. It would be punative for everyone.
But either way, neither your argument nor mone means a hill of beans because it would be immensely idiotic on their part to design encounters that rely on specific covenant abilities to succeed.
Fair points, but the reverse also holds true. Why should, presumably, those players who want, however illusory, it may be the choice.of covenant to feel important? Why should that “choice” be made to feel any less weighty for an equally relative few?
Granted, you are correct. I have, for the sake of ease, attatched a gold value to swapping covenants. But we would be wise to presume that is not the case.
I would also argue that anyone who is pushing bleeding edge/hardcore content will spend their in-game downtime to gain any advantage, whether it’s gear or gold based. That’s the whole point: spend your time in game to get the most and best.
But at the end of the day, any discussion is merely speculative as Blizzard has said swapping to a new covenant will be simple. Swapping back is what will be a pain.
Thus, Occam’s razor suggests the simplest solution is to have an alt that can cover said need.
Do you feel hyperbole makes for a valid discussion? I don’t think so.
Races and Classes are something players identify with. Much like EMFH in the past for PVP, a non-damaging ability (Shadowmeld) has the power to greatly influence the meta. Especially during MOP and WOD, if you were serious about PVP, DPS players were Human or Night Elf (Druid only), otherwise they were Dwarf. Healers would play Dwarf if possible.
It’s not that players wanted to play these races, it’s that the abilities were powerful enough that you felt obligated to pick them in spite of personal preference.
With regards to Ngiht Elf’s Shadowmeld, there is a bit more to nerfing it. Alliance is definitely not in a great state when compared to the Horde. The number of opportunities to play on Horde is better than Alliance. Pushing more players to Horde after nerfing Shadowmeld might trigger a mass transfer of high-end players. Because of that, therre could be an even smaller competitive population for the faction, leading to more gameplay issues down the line, especially with regards to Hall of Fame.
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Pretty sure covenants are things they “want” players to identify with.
But of course a lot of people play the spreadsheet version of WoW which is a different game entirely.
Do you think writing a thesis paper on Covenants makes for valid discussion?
Let me simplify for you. The fact that people WANT to swap covenants for different situations means that some are better for certain things, while others perform better at others. That’s called balance. Just because you can’t always be tops in every circumstance isn’t the end of the world.
Decide how you like to play (M+, PvP, raids) and choose accordingly. You aren’t crippled in one area just because you aren’t mathematically optimal. I have to choose between AoE and ST azerite all the time. I can’t stop the dungeon run to equip the optimal set for every situation.
It’s a game. Just play it.
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I love how people will sit there and try and negate the fact that Race in WoW still to this day plays a huge role in min/max.
Trying to downplay it just so their arguments over something seem more valid. Calling other peoples comparison’s “hyperbole” when they themselves are being hyperbolic in their own fallacies.
Why does the WoW forums still have MVP’s?
edit: Also, I believe we should be focusing on how to actually help Blizzard “balance” these abilities as best as we possibly can. Instead of sitting here crying for everything to be swappable. At that point might as well just make them all baseline since I don’t want to have to sit there and swap per boss, per fight, per style of fight I do.
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Defending a thesis is literally what people do for higher education. So… yes.
You can try addressing the points given, or provide your own.
Players can and will try to be at their best. The complaint is that Blizzard has multiple routes for endgame where different abilities are preferred. Many players don’t like the idea of being held back by systems. Arbitrary restrictions can have too great a negative impact on their experience.
Also, you cannot swap gear in M+ because players swapped Legendaries to fit the need. They didn’t like that type of gameplay. So they put an end to it. You’ll notice the current meta is determined by how big your pulls can be. Many players couldn’t get into higher keys because their AOE output was too low. So they put a cap on Twilight Devastation. Now the meta is about pulling as close to 10 mobs and burning them down.
Players are going to optimize no matter what. If they feel the rule set is unfun, they’ll voice their opinions. I don’t think nerfing/buffing Covenants is particularly easy to do once players make their choice.
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Players who used the “wrong” stats, azerite traits, essences, and corruptions were not just less optimal, it was less fun playing a character with inoptimal gear.
You’re ok with this, but not a marginal imbalance in borrowed powers that will make up a small fraction of our overall damage?
What makes you think I’m okay with it? When you put in twice the effort for half the result, it’s not an enjoyable experience.
I think we have too many borrowed powers. But I can understand why continuously adding more spells just creates bloat.
Damaging abilities are easy to fix. Non-damaging abilities are what usually define the meta.
Yet you want to be able to swap covenants on the fly, but my suggestion to swap classes Was nothing but hyperbole.
I have a whole section dedicated to explaining why we should homogenize the abilities slightly. Overlapping some mechanics allows multiple abilities to fit a situation. You can still get better and worse options, but it’s more like 2-3 good options, instead of 1 good option. Making those abilities a bit more flexible helps blur the line of “good choice” and “bad choice” which helps the player to pick a Covenant based on their personal preference,
What will we “get over with” if it’s going to be an issue all expansion for those who are negatively affected by this?
What is it exactly that you get out of keeping other people from playing multiple types of content well? Do you characterize yourself as a “hardcore rpg-er”?
Or are you just a garden variety control freak that is annoyed that other people are playing the game “wrong” (according to your own highly idiosyncratic standards) and need to be punished?
I can switch spec 50 or more times a day if I want now. Some people switch among druid specs often.
But it never became standard play to switch 50 times a day for anyone as you claim would have been inevitable for all players.
So do you really have a point? Your analogy does not hold water.
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Very well thought out, but just as in real life, choices matter.
When it comes down to combat performance, races don’t matter. What was hyperbole was your roleplaying:
Comments like the quoted are unhelpful and do not promote discussion.
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