It’s funny that you’re bringing up something that was changed for the very same problems that covenants will have.
You know what they say about not learning from history…
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That was Siege of Orgrimmar, specifically Thok. It also didn’t matter because it was an easy boss. Blackfuse, Paragons, and Garrosh were the only difficult encounters. These performance differences only matter when you hit these roadblocks. Because these guilds don’t know if a boss is killable, they take every possible advantage when they feel they actually need it.
The issue wasn’t Beastslaying, it was Berserking. And it was also the fact Trolls had Beastslaying AND Berserking. That’s why Alliance guilds were throwing a tizzy.
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It’s going to be trickier than people think when mob aggro radius is 20 yards and door of shadows is only 35 yards (or maybe gets nerfed to even less) making it impossible to use it as a direct through pack skip.
It aggroing mobs though is a good idea.
You are the one doing the nitpicking.
Nobody is “threatening” to do this. They are acknowledging the fact that if one covenant ability is highly optimal, it will be a requirement in all top groups and many groups that are not at top level. That’s just reality.
Absolutely no one is saying that they should be randomly changed.
Says the 42 human warlock in classic. How’re you doing on reaching end game there, big guy?
LOL
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Because this is ON TOP of the class and race restrictions.
Those things are already annoying to deal with when other mmorpgs don’t have their customers wasting time leveling and maintaining multiple characters the way wow does.
That’s like saying why are you complaining about having to carry 100 pounds when you’re already carrying 200 pounds?
Because it’s ANOTHER HUNDRED POUNDS. that’s a 50% increase in the amount of restrictions in the game.
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If they enjoy the game this way - then let them play that way. They pay their subscription, and it doesn’t impact players like myself that are more casual and rp oriented.
Players in my casual/ rp boat lose nothing for others to have choice and player agency from one piece of content to the next.
We don’t even gain anything having those players be restricted from playing how they enjoy.
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From an RP point though I don’t like that, why even have Covenants then? They should just be regular rep factions and give us new talent rows. It just seems silly to me to “champion” whatever covenant I want at any given moment without consequence.
I’m just not convinced being able to swap covenants on the fly like we do talent choices is a good idea. I don’t think it should be impossible, or stupidly long. Somewhere in the middle in a way that makes sense.
Honestly I just can’t wait for SL to get here so we can get it over with because people are going to argue about it from now until news about the next expansion. That and Torghast.
There is like 300 dps between racials at the most extremely end.
I know you’re trying to muddy the conversation but posting from a non max level classic character is not how you get your point across.
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Considering one of the main arguments against not being able to easily switch is people worried that in what is still a pretty group focused game, other players may ostracize them I would say it still affects casual players if you can switch easily but don’t want to.
When you can switch your setup on a whim 50 times a day it furthers the whole “If you’re not top tier, you’re trash tier” mentality in players. When you can do everything in the game at maximum potential that becomes the default way to play the game and if you don’t do that, you’re wasting people’s time.
As long as you participate in multiplayer content in this game, Covenants and how easily/hard it is to switch them is going to affect you in some way.
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Beautiful post my man I’m glad you went on to make this after seeing some of your previous interactions
I’m glad it was you that took up the sword and championed our voices for this issue
I will keep this bumped
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Just talent the class abilities and keep the signature abilities as is. That way, progressive players can keep their power and players who want substance still have the Utility spells.
Door of Shadows is not going to be the end-all ability that people think its going to be.
And before people bring up Preach, keep in mind Covenant abilities are disabled for Dungeons on the Alpha.
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What gave you that conclusion?
Blizzard went from Talent Trees to Talent Rows and still couldn’t balance them. Your argument hinges on the belief that Blizzard won’t be able to balance Signature abilities when they have an absolute track record of doing that regardless of the details.
What good is a penalty if it doesn’t do anything? That makes no sense. Let players do whatever they want if you’re going to be so limp about it.
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lol
10char
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I mean, it’s pretty easy to parrot this line as a knee jerk reaction but could you elaborate? Why exactly are they different from race or class choices to players, other than the fact that they are more lenient. It’s going to be easier to change your covenant than you class/race from boss to boss or when going between different activities when attempting to min/max like what is being suggested.
An individual decision the player makes directly related to their power and performance that they can’t change on the fly.
At the core, I don’t think they are that different at all.
idk
As mentioned in this thread multiple times, stuff like two +movespeed and an absorb shield are pretty general things. Applicable to pretty much every area.
These aren’t really specialized to any one area of the game.
I believe a minor punishment through RP elements will serve a small role for many players. Utilizing a “Friendship System” that will entice “loyal players” to remain loyal can be added on top of it. Staying with a specific Covenant can have a lot of benefits, where as swapping Covenants often could severely impact your quality of life in the game.
In my opinion, Covenants should still be a “package deal.” I’d like a happy medium where RPG elements aren’t thrown away for the sake of gameplay balance.
Door of Shadows probably won’t be everyone’s first pick. But I’m a lazy player and there are a lot of ways I can use this ability to skip stuff I don’t want to do. It will be very strong in a world without flying. And within instances, because so few classes have a teleport, it can trivialize a lot of movement-related mechanics.
When players are locked into a Covenant, and you nerf/buff Covenants, you can severely impact players’ past decisions. Take Gushing Wounds, for example, if Blizzard nerfed Gushing Wounds AFTER people had purchased it, how many players would have purchased something different instead? Because players know it’s going to be nerfed, some have altered their purchases. Com,ing back to Covenants, if you’re able to easily swap, then the impact against players won’t be as severe.
Depending on the spec, talents can be pretty balanced overall. Some are niche, some are always the best. But as I’ve mentioned earlier, being able to tune talents after receiving a huge amount of player data is important. Blizzard would have to choose between leaving some abilities too strong and feeling mandatory, or they’d have to bite the bullet and severely impact a player’s past decision.
Punishments don’t have to be severe. Incentives for staying can be pretty strong. For example, if it meant missing out on a major quality of life effects, impact to progression (effectively resetting it in some cases), you can dissuade many players.
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I don’t feel Resto is the only viable spec. This sort of thing comes down to numbers. Numbers are pretty easy. There’s still plenty of time to see changes for mechanics (with are more impactful, generally, than a buff or nerf here or there).
I’m an optimist, but I think the big announcement coming up directly relates to the points in your post, a change in vision by Blizzard about the Covenant system.
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I agree. My guess is we will see Torghast news, Covenants news (Conduits and Soulbinds preview), and Covenant system updates regarding design philosophy.
They also might be doing drops/keys. Like a huge wave of alpha invites. Interest has sort of waned, and getting fresh blood into the Alpha will bring back a lot of the early testers.
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Let’s wait and see
Also bump
No, they didn’t do that. Nor did they do something incredibly obvious which would have been to make story choices more complex and involved than they typically are.
That’s the way you make choices matter in an RPG. By making it so when a player chooses it cannot be walked back and affects their dialogue options the rest of the way.
WoW story / dialogue options have always been primitive and there’s no good reason for that. If they want the RPG elements to matter they could beef up the dialogue options and the way NPCs react to you based on your actions in the game.
Also, I’d really love to see an era in the game where you can choose to be the villain and have a fully fleshed out story for that.