The M+ nerf is good and raiding should always offer the best gear

I’ve cleared mythic nzoth and haven’t timed anything above a 18?

Mythic raiding is not even close to high end m+ or pvp. Literally due to the infinite scaling of m+ will make it eventually harder than any raid no matter what. At the high end a m+ is essentially a 40 minute boss fight.

Pvp you are competing against others. You can improve and so can others. People are constantly getter better. The bar is always being raised. You actually have to do quick thinking and reflex plays on the move.

For raids the bar is always the same. If anything it gets lower with nerfs. And if someone like me, who only did heroic raids for most of bfa (didn’t do any raids at all in legion where I started) can get CE than I really do not think you can say its the hardest.

What you suggest is the same as scaling but with a different approach. Yes, it’s totally unfair to a player who does Epic BGs all day, every day (and there are quite a few of us) to have some Mythic geared scrub come in and lord over us all simply because of gear. I know you want to lord over people without much effort, but I want there to be more effort and to make the rated players stand out alongside those who obtain high honor ranking. It can be done, Blizzard is just too lazy and afraid to do it. It’s been done and across seasons of rated, honor could rank and make random BGs an avenue to obtain the same gear as rated PVPers.

This is called balance. No mounts, no titles, just gear and ilvls equivalent to Mythic/M+/Rated. There can be four avenues of obtaining high end gear. Honor rankings would be very slow, much slower than any other but once a player reaches a certain threshold of honor obtained during that season they can buy the PVP gear. Not a difficult scenario to implement at all.

Not true. I just dont want my gear constantly swapping and changing based on the content im doing at the time - if x spell hits for x amount - i want it to hit for x amount across the board and not change between open world pve, open world pvp, 5 mans, raids, random bg’s, rated bg’s and arena. I cant stand arena but i love objective based pvp where tactics mean as much as gearing.

This works but what balance does that leave you for pvp content v someone who is raid geared - the pvp content needs to have something to make it advantageous in pvp. Im asking for this soemthing to not be scaling, make it something interesting that affects something else than just a number modifyer.

I loved the pvp gearing in TBC, with buyable pvp gear, pvp set bonus, pvp stat - i hated the fact the ‘best’ came from arenas. Imagine TBC pvp gearing, with the possibility to get equal gear from rated bg’s.

Thing about Mythic raiding is, that few seem to even talk about is that once the raid is wearing the gear from that raid, the content is on farm. This is how it has always been, and the Mythic guys will tell it’s hard while in full Mythic gear. It’s not, it’s hard at the start and that’s called progression raiding. There is NO WAY that Mythic can hold a candle to M+ when Mythic is simply mechanical gameplay with little to no variation from pull to pull. Affixes differ and that makes M+ dynamic and difficult, some affixes are what sets the highest level able to be cleared for that week, any M+ player will tell you that.

Oh so you can’t use the gear wardrobe function built into the game? Is that too much for you to set up and push a button. Weak excuse.

You can’t always have what you want, and let’s face it, that’s a pretty selfish argument when you want to hit as hard in PVE as you do PVE. Next point is even more invalidated and selfish…

You contradict yourself. Your first statement contradicts you right here. If gearing meant a lot to you, then switching in and out would be something that would mean a LOT to you. See the contradiction? I do.

I means the PVPer rises above because they are geared for that content and not suffering at the hands of a player who can beat them based on the fact they are able to raid once a week.

This is exactly what I’m trying to say, that rated content shouldn’t be the only format for obtaining PVP gear because it’s not the only format of PVP. Resilience was a good thing, it’s just that many of the PVE scrublords cried and cried about it so much that it was removed entirely. It was a good system.

What? I meant in terms of different scaling for each bit of content, not swapping the actual gear.

Let gear be gear. Make everything clear and transparent. No more invisible systems that create bugs and deincentivizes people to actually play the game. Don’t balance for the lowest common denominator. It’s 2020 and we still donn’t have a single sentence added on to tooltips explaining how its different in pvp. literally

Move
blah blah blah.
DOES 25% LESS DMG TO PLAYERS.

That’s not hard. They are so scatterbrained with their design they have a system like scaling for the super hyper casual bg players but yet, they expect you memorize every patch note and check them every day to be up to date for PvP that’s so bizarre.

I remember in WoD late into the expac around s3 it was found an old balancing change for lava burst reducing its damage in pvp was still active. I just imagine a giant ball of spaghetti code.

If you do 2400+ Arena you deserve the stats, M+15 you deserve those stats, if you do mythic raiding YOU EARNED THOSE STATS don’t let devs take them away from you.

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They balance to w/e they use for MDI. which is like 19-21s

Mythic geared scrub? If you were as good as you say you are in pvp, this wouldn’t matter, also if you are high rated, it wouldnt be a huge disadvantage in ilvl/gear. You’re also implying being fully mythic geared takes little effort. Kinda seems the scrub here is you, filled with envy.

I think as long as Mythic+ is allowed to be an endless loot farm with no lockout that OP is right. Something endless cannot be allowed to provide better rewards than something deemed equivalent in difficulty that you’re only allowed to touch once a week.

No, lowering the # of items in the chest at the end of the dungeon run does not change that. It makes it more of a grind, but it’s still endlessly spammable, which means anyone with time can fully gear in a week if they’re dedicated. (And an organized group can make it more efficient by stacking armor types)

That said, I personally wouldn’t have gone the “nerf the ilvl of M+ rewards” route. I would have gone the “limit the loot” route. I’m not sure if that’s better or much, much, much worse to other fans of M+ as a feature, but it’s my preferred “fix”.

As for the specifics, there are multiple possibilities, but I’d go for a revamped Titan Residuum system - a currency vendor that rewards playing content at the level you’re geared & skilled for, rather than spamming entry level content for high-quality gear.

Dynamic currency caps and end-of-dungeon currency instead of weekly box currency. Let people buy their upgrades as they earn the currency, even if what they can buy is still limited to be about the same as now on a weekly basis.

Base loot would have to be nerfed. If M0 is 430, M+ as a whole is now 440 (445 at best, but I like the idea of it not swallowing Emissary quests and Normal Raiding when it has a currency system as its main source of progression on top of this).

Vendor tokens work as they do in BfA. Remove the absurdly expensive specific item purchases, but let players choose between 2 RNG options when they claim a gear token for whatever slot to alleviate it a bit.

Omg blizz added something that ain’t i gotta raid to always have best gear. omg a change so i’m going to throw a fit on the forums. might as well just keep classes the same as always to since changes are bad and i’m just a butt really cause something was added and i don’t like it that makes raids not so best anymore. changes in a game this old are actually good believe it or not.

I dont get all the outrage? So what if the end of dung ilvl is lower, players are still going to gear faster from the chest than they ever have, which is where M+ players gear from anyway. It’s a non-issue.

The level 15 M+ runs on time are harder than heroic raids.
It is just that there is no weekly cap to how many level 15 runs you can do I guess.

This is relevant again!

Agreed. Mythic +rs were always telling everyone else to get gud and do Mythic + if they wanted gear. Whelp what about raiding? I think the Mythic +ers should get gud and do raiding for the best gear.

Not everybody has the time to give, there is the flaw in your logic. Not everybody has 2+ hours, 3 times a week to push progression. Some people just legit do not like Raiding. I know several people, irl, who have never done a single raid, but they have played since Vanilla and BC

Accuses me of being jaded then rants about how raiding isolates players. LOL. If you for one second think that people invite other players for M+ so that they can meet new people, then you are honestly a lost cause. I never said M+ was anti social, I said M+ provided the means to obtain raid quality loot FOR the anti social. If you dont like being in a guild thats cool, but you will never have as high as item level as those that will be raiding. You’re just going to have to deal with it.

Using your own logic, theres no way that M+ is harder than mythic raiding because most of the affixes will be recycled affixes that people have already mastered. M+ is dynamic only up to the point of players having seen it 2-3 times. Do you know how many 300+ wipe bosses mythic raiding has produced? How many 300+ wipe M+ dungeons have you been apart of? How many 100+? You see the point im trying to make here?

When BFA dropped +10’s were like 15’s so to expect a person to run +15’s with mythic 0 gear to get loot less then heroic is a joke. It’s insane to me that people think when mythic keys are dropped that people with m0 armor the first few weeks are able to just run a 15 to get this gear. Heroic is easily cleared in the first few weeks of release by decent guilds. All you are doing is stopping lower guilds from completing heroic faster by not giving them a way to get better gear faster to clear that content in order to go into mythic raids.

Is there like a time limit on doing anything? You make it seem like there’s a time limit.

Ya there is a time limit. Why would people run m+ when they have already cleared heroic with better gear? Like if you are in full heroic gear after a couple of clears there is no point in doing m+ because you outgear that content it is a waste of time.