The Lack of Horde Focus Makes Warcraft Feel Less Warcraft

[Malthorazel-sentinels]

@Tovi-moon-guard

I vote for Anduin.

no, the blue avatars don’t like Anduin either.

make it Genn.

or Tyrande and Malfurion.

no, no wait. I got it.

let’s hit Velen with the villain bat.

[Soulebreaker-hyjal]

@Wildberry-stormreaver

Vol’jin threatened to assassinate Garrosh, he was stirring up dissent during wartime, he was in league with someone who literally collaborated with an enemy, and appointed himself a “check” on Garrosh’s power despite having no legal basis.

Because Garrosh was a lunatic.

@Wildberry-stormreaver

Misreading the Garrosh raid text and ignoring literally EVERY other piece of Lore, bravo.

Didn’t misread it. The game made it clear what his aspirations were.

@Wildberry-stormreaver

Do you understand how Governments work? It requires a de jure or MAJOR de facto change in governance (or in case of monarchies, dynasty) for people to draw distinctions between different iterations of Governments. That’s why we’re not on the “47th American Republic” currently.

The only de facto change in the Horde’s power structure came from Doomhammer’s Mak’gora with Blackhand, where he stripped the Shadow Council of its power, and brought the reality in line with the Law (Warchief Supremacy). That Governance structure was kept in place when Doomhammer handed over leadership to Thrall. Not only does Thrall owe his position to Doomhammer naming him successor, he sees himself (Wrathgate Quests) as struggling to uphold Doomhammer’s Vision for the Horde.

I’m not talking about change in how leadership is handled. Which also has changed now and I don’t like that. But how they approach war. And when they go to war. I’m also not talking about America or anything IRL.

[Tovi-moon-guard (Tovi)]

People purposely don’t get it.

“wElL sYlVaNaS wAs eViL”

… because they made her that way. If they would have just left her alone, she would still be in the basement of Undercity right now, hurling insults at you and being creepy.

[Greatbobbo-zuljin (Greatbobbo)]

@Malthorazel-sentinels

let’s hit Velen with the villain bat.

Have you seen that guy’s forehead? He’s been hit in the face enough.

[Tovi-moon-guard (Tovi)]

@Malthorazel-sentinels

no, the blue avatars don’t like Anduin either.

make it Genn.

or Tyrande and Malfurion.

no, no wait. I got it.

let’s hit Velen with the villain bat.

I like the way you think.

[Ricros-bleeding-hollow]

Hell no.

Make it Jaina.

[Malthorazel-sentinels]

honestly, all this handwringing over Garrosh is nonsense.

he was a buffoon in Nagrand.

He was a buffoon in Northrend.

He was a buffoon as Warchief.

He was a buffoon on Draenor.

He was a buffoon in Sanctum of Domination.

I’ll never understand the people who worship him.

He was an awful leader through and through.

Thrall making him Warchief, and then not killing him after the Siege are Thrall’s two greatest mistakes.

btw, if you are typing up a"garrosh did nothing wrong" trolling novel, you can save it for someone who cares.

[Berrd-azgalor]

Jaina should have died at the end of Battle of Dazar’alor.

[Soulebreaker-hyjal]

And then post on Blood Elves to show their love of him so much, lmfao.

[Wildberry-stormreaver]

@Soulebreaker-hyjal

Because Garrosh was a lunatic.

@Wildberry-stormreaver

People forget, but that is what started the Vol’jin-Garrosh Feud. Garrosh starting a war, because the Horde was economically reliant on the Alliance, the Alliance had been encroaching on its territory during peacetime for years, the Alliance wasn’t able to restrain terrorists from hijacking agreed upon trade caravans, the Alliance had severed trade over something we didn’t even do, resulting in the prospect of “starving children” (“The Shattering,”).

How is Garrosh a lunatic for starting a war to fix this problem? What is the ideal solution to this, because WotLK, & The Shattering show diplomacy failing to address this issue.

@Soulebreaker-hyjal

Didn’t misread it. The game made it clear what his aspirations were.

Whoah, Garrosh is a bad guy because he doubled down on the Orc thing after:
-The leader of the Trolls threatened him with death, appointed himself as an unconstitutional check on his power, stirred up dissent and was in open rebellion.
-The leader of the Tauren collaborated with the enemy during wartime, leaking information of an upcoming attack costing the Horde lives (to the best of his knowledge)
-The Leader of the Forsaken slaughtered the observers of her chemical weapons program that were appointed by the previous Warchief
-The Leader of the Blood Elves tried to join the Alliance during wartime
-The Leader of the Goblins grew a conscience for all of 5 seconds and hid a weapon from Garrosh in spite of direct, lawful orders.

(And even then, he allowed non-Orc loyalists to continue to serve)

What a monster!

@Soulebreaker-hyjal

I’m not talking about change in how leadership is handled. Which also has changed now and I don’t like that. But how they approach war. And when they go to war. I’m also not talking about America or anything IRL.

I’m using IRL examples to illustrate a point, not discuss them.

There is no Old Horde New Horde split. You do not “become” a new Government because the methods you use to wage war, or the strategic objectives you declare war for change.

[Malthorazel-sentinels]

@Berrd-azgalor

Jaina should have died at the end of Battle of Dazar’alor.

this too. /10chars

[Soulebreaker-hyjal]

@Wildberry-stormreaver

How is Garrosh a lunatic for starting a war to fix this problem? What is the ideal solution to this, because WotLK, & The Shattering show diplomacy failing to address this issue.

I noticed your guild name. It’s not even worth going into this if you don’t see the things that Garrosh did wrong.

@Wildberry-stormreaver

What a monster!

Yes he was.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

@Wildberry-stormreaver

WotLK was a much better example of quest design and storytelling. It wasn’t on rails, but it also went out of its way to show that, while there is a main cast of characters, there are plenty of secondary and tertiary characters with different interests, who represented different ideological sections of their race, etc.

With the exception of how they handled a few antagonists this is why I prefer pre-cata storytelling in WoW as a whole.

Though from what I remember of dev interviews around the time of Cata they wanted to make things more linear because they didn’t want players getting lost and not knowing where the questlines they should be doing were.

@Malthorazel-sentinels

make it Genn.

or Tyrande and Malfurion.

no, no wait. I got it.

let’s hit Velen with the villain bat.

If they wanna kill an Alliance leader in a way that isn’t terrible writing they should kill off Turalyon in the inevitable Light vs Void story arc where they’ve clearly set up that the Light isn’t as good as some characters think it is.

Just killing off a random leader purely because of the forum posters who insist on this us vs them narrative would be worse writing than Shadowlands(which, to be fair, would be quite the accomplishment).

Velen also already got a worse treatment than being killed off: He got made largely irrelevant in his own story arc by being overshadowed by the real main character.

[Tovi-moon-guard (Tovi)]

@Malthorazel-sentinels

He was a buffoon in Sanctum of Domination

Wait wait wait…

I was like “YEAH!” right up until this. His cinematic in SL was amazing and that’s coming from someone that didn’t like his character because, you know, even though Magatha killed Cairne I still hate Garrosh for it.

[Soulebreaker-hyjal]

I did like that he was unapologetic about everything. And then got himself disenchanted. That was fun.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

I like that he basically took one look around, noticed he was in Shadowlands and just went “Nope, I’m out”.

[Tovi-moon-guard (Tovi)]

Right? It was a badass cinematic, 'specially since he figuratively spit in Thrall’s face (he deserved it.)

[Wildberry-stormreaver]

@Soulebreaker-hyjal

I noticed your guild name. It’s not even worth going into this if you don’t see the things that Garrosh did wrong.

Notice how I cite everything I saw & draw heavily from text, and you’re just kind of saying things.

But hey, then you saw the guild name and took the coward’s way out because you can’t admit that you have no idea what you’re talking about, you couldn’t cite anything to support your positions, and you get utterly blown out on the facts.

[Malthorazel-sentinels]

oh i wasn’t serious with this, clearly.

I don’t actually WANT another faction war.

I just want my Horde to have their own stories that are not solely focused on whether the Alliance players like them or not.

[Ricros-bleeding-hollow]

@Wildberry-stormreaver

-The leader of the Trolls threatened him with death, appointed himself as an unconstitutional check on his power, stirred up dissent and was in open rebellion.

Garrosh technically threatened Vol’jin first.

@Wildberry-stormreaver

-The Leader of the Goblins grew a conscience for all of 5 seconds and hid a weapon from Garrosh in spite of direct, lawful orders.

What exactly are you referring to?