The Imbalance has reached a boiling point

10/26/2018 01:34 PMPosted by Sydarar
A good first step would be getting rid of mercenaries. Shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it, too. If you want to play on the dominant side, there should be a downside.


Did you feel the same way when Alliance was mercing on the Horde side?
10/26/2018 11:27 AMPosted by KĂĄdy
I am not really sure what my personal experience with pvp this xpac has to do with the data I provided? Please explain how it is relevant to the information I provided.
The data you provided is influenced by other factors, such as mercenaries, premades, and lower level bgs.

With personal experience, you may realize that this data might not be an accurate reflection of the current state of affairs for Alliance players who solo queue at max level.


How does mercenary mode affect win rate?
How does that percentage affect the data that clearly shows a small margin of win rate difference?
What is the percentage of players mercing?
What is the percentage of premades running regularly?
What is the percentage of horde vs. alliance premades running random bgs?

What I am saying in regards to personal experience vs. actual data is that personal experience is just that and not really a factual depiction of faction balance and win rate as a whole. When people come to the forums and make posts like the OP, it's usually because they just got off a losing streak (which happens to everyone BTW) and are emotionally charged and not really looking at things rationally. The data depicts a completely different picture than "Alliance lose 19/20" games. So either the data is way way off OR the posts are exaggerated.

As far as your question pertaining to my pvp activity this xpac, I felt that you asked the question already knowing the answer because you wanted to negate the points I was making in regards to data because I personally had not pvp'd much this xpac and therefore could not possibly have any valuable or legitimate input. I felt it was a blatant attempt to discredit what I provided. It might not have been but that's what I assumed knowing that you keep up to date on the activities of many in the premade community.

Let's not forget that my post was based on data, not my feelings, not my emotions, not my experience, but data. So again, either the data is REALLY off OR this constant rambling on the forums about horrible imbalance between faction win rates is exaggerated.

I am not saying it's not possible for some people to have a really horrible win rate experience. What I am saying is as a whole, the data does not depict a massive imbalance in this regard.
10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by Muffindiving
10/26/2018 01:34 PMPosted by Sydarar
A good first step would be getting rid of mercenaries. Shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it, too. If you want to play on the dominant side, there should be a downside.


Did you feel the same way when Alliance was mercing on the Horde side?


As a matter of fact, yes. Whoever is dominant should be faced with the que times under the current system. It acts as a soft balancing measure. I remember pre-BC, people rolled Horde explicitly for shorter que times. It's either that or red v blue.
10/26/2018 02:02 PMPosted by Sydarar
Whoever is dominant should be faced with the que times


I disagree. Not everyone are re-rolls
10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
How does mercenary mode affect win rate?
I can't tell you without more data (e.g. how many are there, what is their win rate as mercenaries, etc.)

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
How does that percentage affect the data that clearly shows a small margin of win rate difference?
What is the percentage of players mercing?
What is the percentage of premades running regularly?
What is the percentage of horde vs. alliance premades running random bgs?
All information that we're missing.

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
What I am saying in regards to personal experience vs. actual data is that personal experience is just that and not really a factual depiction of faction balance and win rate as a whole.
And what I'm saying is that when your personal experience varies from "data", you might begin to question the accuracy of the data and what does it actually show.

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
The data depicts a completely different picture than "Alliance lose 19/20" games. So either the data is way way off OR the posts are exaggerated.
And I'm pointing out that the data may not be accurately showing what Alliance players experience when they solo queue for bgs at max level.

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
As far as your question pertaining to my pvp activity this xpac, I felt that you asked the question already knowing the answer because you wanted to negate the points I was making in regards to data because I personally had not pvp'd much this xpac and therefore could not possibly have any valuable or legitimate input.
I was asking about your PvP activity to see if you've experienced it firsthand.

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
I felt it was a blatant attempt to discredit what I provided.
I am pointing out how the data you provided might not be an accurate portrayal of bgs for Alliance players who solo queue at max level.

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
knowing that you keep up to date on the activities of many in the premade community.
I don't know who's been telling you that.

<shrug>

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
Let's not forget that my post was based on data, not my feelings, not my emotions, not my experience, but data.
The data includes mercenaries.

The data includes premades.

The data includes lower level bgs.

The data doesn't include players who AFK out of losing bgs.

If you asked me what's the average win rate for an Alliance player who solo queues for random bgs at max level, I wouldn't be able to tell you. But I've experienced enough of BFA PvP firsthand to question data claiming that things are nearly even, especially for Alliance pugs.
10/26/2018 02:14 PMPosted by Forums
10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
How does mercenary mode affect win rate?
I can't tell you without more data (e.g. how many are there, what is their win rate as mercenaries, etc.)

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
How does that percentage affect the data that clearly shows a small margin of win rate difference?
What is the percentage of players mercing?
What is the percentage of premades running regularly?
What is the percentage of horde vs. alliance premades running random bgs?
All information that we're missing.

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
What I am saying in regards to personal experience vs. actual data is that personal experience is just that and not really a factual depiction of faction balance and win rate as a whole.
And what I'm saying is that when your personal experience varies from "data", you might begin to question the accuracy of the data and what does it actually show.

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
The data depicts a completely different picture than "Alliance lose 19/20" games. So either the data is way way off OR the posts are exaggerated.
And I'm pointing out that the data may not be accurately showing what Alliance players experience when they solo queue for bgs at max level.

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
As far as your question pertaining to my pvp activity this xpac, I felt that you asked the question already knowing the answer because you wanted to negate the points I was making in regards to data because I personally had not pvp'd much this xpac and therefore could not possibly have any valuable or legitimate input.
I was asking about your PvP activity to see if you've experienced it firsthand.

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
I felt it was a blatant attempt to discredit what I provided.
I am pointing out how the data you provided might not be an accurate portrayal of bgs for Alliance players who solo queue at max level.

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
knowing that you keep up to date on the activities of many in the premade community.
I don't know who's been telling you that.

<shrug>

10/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
Let's not forget that my post was based on data, not my feelings, not my emotions, not my experience, but data.
The data includes mercenaries.

The data includes premades.

The data includes lower level bgs.

The data doesn't include players who AFK out of losing bgs.

If you asked me what's the average win rate for an Alliance player who solo queues for random bgs at max level, I wouldn't be able to tell you. But I've experienced enough of BFA PvP firsthand to question data claiming that things are nearly even, especially for Alliance pugs.
The data may very well be off if you consider other factors. That being said, it is definitely NOT off by the amount people claim in this forum. People will believe what they want and me trying to debate this with actual data was a dumb idea in the first place because I knew people would pick apart the data. There will always be something... carry on.
But I've experienced enough of BFA PvP firsthand to question data claiming that things are nearly even, especially for Alliance pugs.
As have I and that site is pretty accurate, ymmv. It’s definitely more even than not like we’ve experienced other expansions. This is coming from me after just losing 3 in a row. Time of day really matters more than anything.
10/26/2018 10:16 AMPosted by Jugajr
10/26/2018 10:15 AMPosted by Oozo
...

You must be mistaken. Jugaa didn't get attacked so you must not have been attacked either. Also, Jugaa wins half of their BGs so everybody else must be winning half of their BGs as well.

Jugaa-logic can't be denied or defeated.


Or it's just greatly exaggerated how bad the faction imbalance is, just like in Legion


Or it makes a huge difference which realm you play on. If I'm not mistaken, Emerald Dream is a role-playing realm. Nothing wrong with that, but I think your experience is going to be different from other realms.
10/26/2018 02:40 PMPosted by Karenthi
10/26/2018 10:16 AMPosted by Jugajr
...

Or it's just greatly exaggerated how bad the faction imbalance is, just like in Legion


Or it makes a huge difference which realm you play on. If I'm not mistaken, Emerald Dream is a role-playing realm. Nothing wrong with that, but I think your experience is going to be different from other realms.
It’s not realm based.
10/26/2018 04:13 AMPosted by Noshelter
Alliance is getting stomped in 19/20 games. It's worse than I've ever seen it. Horde team gets twice as many healers, because roles aren't locked. Alliance gets fresh levelled toons in greens because you're giving away loot boxes for losses...

How long has this been happening?

I've only see it this week. I think Alliance have more people who just do quests and not end game content, and they are flooding into battlegrounds because this week's weekly quest is to win four battlegrounds, increasing the cluelessness quotient on Alliance side. Hopefully next week it will be back to normal.
And what exactly are they supposed to do to fix it? Force players to play alliance? Give alliance an unfair advantage like a damage buff? Nerf horde so alliance can win? Blizzard can't really do anything about it. If people don't want to play alliance, they don't want to play alliance...


bs...................blizz can end all mercing and let the chips fall where they may.
a good first step
10/26/2018 02:32 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
People will believe what they want and me trying to debate this with actual data was a dumb idea in the first place because I knew people would pick apart the data.
I was pointing out some of the flaws. The data includes so much stuff (e.g. mercenaries, premades, lower level bgs, etc.) that it becomes difficult to answer simple questions, e.g. "What is the average win rate for Alliance pugs at max level?"

10/26/2018 02:32 PMPosted by KĂĄdy
There will always be something... carry on.
Ok.

I want to reiterate that I really had no idea what you've been doing in BFA. I wasn't trying to trap you or anything. I was wondering if your personal experience matched the data.

If you don't believe my opinion on faction imbalance, maybe you'll believe Krienn?
10/25/2018 05:22 AMPosted by Krienn
How could Blizz ever fix this? I’m all for a challenge but man it’s been a rough expansion so far. Especially the last two weeks in normals and epics.
One thing they should do is with regards to the deserter buff ive fou d that to be the greatest problem with alliance.
My brother plays Dota and from what i hear they have quite strict penalties for deserters. I think that would clean up a lot of ppls attitudes and also filter ppl that dont want to stick it out or are looking to be carried.
Easy fix, get rid of factions for pvp.

If you RP and want to keep it the old way maybe RP servers can have a choice for their own ques via an npc and also the option to join normally like the rest of us.
10/26/2018 06:15 AMPosted by Greyhide
10/26/2018 05:22 AMPosted by Topicalmeme
It's Blizzard's job to manage the faction balance. When one side is dominating all aspects of the endgame, players who are serious about endgame are going to skew toward that side. New players are going to skew Horde. Faction changes are going to skew Horde. Rerolls are going to skew Horde.

That's a slippery slope to deal with. Back in Vanilla, Horde dominated PVP everywhere, even with Alliance having the better chokepoint in AV, Horde still won.

That's not true. On most servers Alliance dominated AV in Vanilla, and Horde dominated AB and WG. This was caused by population imbalance: Horde had shorter queues so they got twice as much practice in AB and WG, but AV battles dragged out until the wee hours, when the Horde queue ran dry before the Alliance queue did.

The situation is different now.

The EMFH nerf was a sledgehammer that drove too many PVP players from Alliance to Horde. Some fine tuning of racials is needed to drive some of those players - but not all of them - back Alliance.
10/26/2018 02:34 PMPosted by Jugajr
But I've experienced enough of BFA PvP firsthand to question data claiming that things are nearly even, especially for Alliance pugs.
As have I and that site is pretty accurate, ymmv. It’s definitely more even than not like we’ve experienced other expansions. This is coming from me after just losing 3 in a row. Time of day really matters more than anything.


The faction disparity is so severe I wouldn't be shocked if it winds up 70/30. One side has more people, more guilds, more gear and keeps snowballing out of control. The one thing it definitely is not is even.
10/26/2018 02:53 PMPosted by Neltherial
Easy fix, get rid of factions for pvp.

If you RP and want to keep it the old way maybe RP servers can have a choice for their own ques via an npc and also the option to join normally like the rest of us.
I agree, this is the best solution.
10/26/2018 09:32 AMPosted by Karenthi
10/26/2018 06:18 AMPosted by Vanazar
Mercenary mode needs to be removed and the bonus should be extra conquest per win rather than the useless honor that is currently given.

I think the opposite approach would work better. That is, allow Mercenary Mode to work both ways, all the time. Eventually the mixing would be so thorough that gear and competency should be roughly equal on both sides.

I'd prefer eliminating it, but either one would be an improvement. Right now, Horde can use merc mode to choose whichever side is winning, and to find out about Alliance strategies. Alliance doesn't have those options. As a result, when Alliance figure out something new (Workshop now works better than Docks, and why), all the Horde know within days, while when the Horde find out something new (How to target East gate with Airship), it's very hard for Alliance to figure it out.
quality alliance pvpers more and more, continue to roll horde

hordies get stronger
alliance gets weaker

the imbalance may well be reaching critical mass here ..........Blizz are you listening?
10/26/2018 09:27 AMPosted by Oozo
1. You can level using War Mode much easier on horde. When leveling this DK from 110 to 120 I only saw two alliance.

I only saw 2-3 Horde while leveling this Lock. And yes, I always have warmode on.

You're on a RP server where there isn't a major imbalance.