… in… PvE.
Abilities are used differently in pvp than they are in pve.
If a monk uses flying serpent kick and gets stunned midair, what happens? Also, problem? Complaining about unique class/ability design?
Yes, I’m telling you the most effective way to use the ability in a pvp context based on how the game is currently operating.
It does a lot of burst damage. Pvp is about landing kills to win games. You are complaining in a pvp context.
You can’t complain in a pvp context and then bolster your claim with pve design.
if a warrior charges / intercepts, and is cc’d during his charge, does it go on cooldown like the hunt?
If so, one would think the hunt has the same kind of function, if not, then the hunt is obviously broken. Also, if they are cc’d during the charge, does it NOT stun the target / cause its effects? if charge functions exactly like the hunt, i’ll concede its working as intended.
I think the counterplay is fine, I just want the ability and abilities like it to work the same way. If they do, it’s a non issue, if they don’t, it would be nice for the design intent to be stated, so we can be sure it’s supposed to be the way that it is.
Naturally. The ability was cast, so it goes on cooldown
You realize the damage is almost definitely going to be nerfed right? The pvp tuning passes have not happened yet. I know how to use the ability. Flying serpent kick is not the same as a charging abilities. Why would you compare it to that instead of actual similar mechanics? There are plenty of similar charge mechanics to compare it to if you want to make that comparison.
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Both abilities you listed applied the stuns/roots INSTANTLY upon the cast and, I have to double check but i think you still gap close.
This is basically what I am saying. The leech debuff should be applied instantly upon completion of the cast. The charge aspect should work similarly to other target locked gap closers.
if so, then the ability is not functioning like a charge, therefore it is unique, so it would be helpful to know if its working as intended, being a new mechanic, which no other ability currently in the game shares. I think wanting to know if its intended, is a fair point to ask.
The Hunt is a unique ability, however.
It deals massive damage and applies a debuff. I share your curiosity if it’s intended that the ability not apply the debuff or do no damage if you’re cc’d after the cast, but I take no conceptual issue with it if it’s working as intended.
I don’t care that much either, but to me its very likely not working as intended due to the fact that the debuff persists through immunities. Obviously the ability does too much damage in pvp and will almost certainly be nerfed by the time we obtain higher ranks of the hunt conduit. I want the ability to be working as intended for when the inevitable happens and it loses the “short range execute” that you claim its supposed to be. This ability already in mediocre gear crits for 16000 and it will gain much more damage through conduits.
Pvp balance numbers have always meant nothing on the first week of an expansion.
The ability being reasonably nerfed won’t change its function.
It will go from being an execute you use when the target is at 60% or lower to an execute you use when the target is at 30% or lower. Nothing wrong with that. Seems reasonable to me.
I mean, unless some situation arises where you just desperately need the leech and you aren’t trying to land the kill (though in the current meta, that’s already likely a loss).
If the hunt is nerfed as you expect, there will still have to be fair compensation to its damage or it will lose its balance in pve, unless blizzard goes with a % damage reduced when used vs players
The percent nerf in pvp is in almost all cases what usually happens. And if that happens and its not usable as a charge there will be no reason to pick night fae for pvp. The leech portion needs to be applied instantly at minimum. Especially when dh already lost the vast majority of its healing. The way the spell currently works makes the spell lose literally all of its flavor and be a gimmick one shot. I do not think that is the design intention of the spell. The fact that no other ability in the game really has similar issues points to the fact that this is not an intended design feature, and either a bug or something that was overlooked.
Why design a mechanic that goes through hard immunities but can just be cc’ed easily to prevent it? It doesn’t even have to be a stun. Mass entanglement can even stop it.
If the ability was instant then yes there would be some sort of skill /reaction to it. It would be more akin to immuning deathcoils. “Late kicking” a spell is not skill or hard in any way. I’m not calling for it to be instant. Just dispelling any myth that this is a skillful or difficult play to do.
Right, just as it takes skill to react and counter it, it likewise takes skill to plan and utilize it art the most effective moment. If it wasn’t for that, it should get a nerf because it’d be a braindead burst move with no downside.
Given that most people are very, very vocal about how “easy” dh is to play, this should be striking most people as a net positive.
It takes “skill” to just use it in a stun from point blank melee range? You sure have a different definition of skill. It does not increase complexity, only limit use cases. Its actually what turns it INTO a brain dead move that you just use to finish someone off in a stun with a 15k crit.
And skill to “react” and counter it? There isn’t a person in the world that doesn’t have more than enough time to “react” to it considering you have well over a second including travel time. There is nothing skillful about countering it, it only limits use cases.
“If it wasn’t for that it’d be a braindead burst move”. That’s exactly what it is right now and the only use for it due to the bug. I highly doubt they would prefer to keep it a gimmick one shot over retaining the actual flavor of the ability.
So either: a) it’s being used in melee range and prevented, which is either they got priority over you (we’re all on both sides of this at times) or was planned to prevent you from accomplishing what you want.
Either answer is not one that should frustrate. It’s either c’est la vie, or a counter play that works.
Or, b) is used at range and the aforementioned reasons occur.
So, yes, either they got the better end of it or the move was countered. I’m failing to understand why either answer is an issue
Because the entire flavor of the ability is negated due to how it functions. There are no other casts in the game that are negated in this way AFTER the cast has completed. It would be like allowing spell reflect to reflect spells midair and calling it skillful to never get faked.
The way it currently functions, it MUST be overtuned burst damage or be completely useless.
The way it is currently tuned makes ANY nerf to the ability kill the covenant off entirely in pvp.
Spell reflect can and does do that depending on “where” midair is considered being. I’ve reflected a number of en route spells with my warlock as well.
Frankly, it doesn’t lose value or flavor, just requires one to bear in mind it’s not guaranteed to off. Plenty of strong abilities have this potential. In no way does that detract from the skill or limit its use.
You do not understand how reflect functions. Reflect reflects the first spell cast, and MUST be cast before the projectile is midair. There is also another mechanic to it where all future spells UNTIL that projectile lands are also reflected. This does not mean you can reflect a projectile that was already midair before reflect was cast.
And yes it loses flavor and function entirely. I do not care if at low ratings you can cast it at 50 yards vs someone who just installed the game. It means nothing, the ability is not usable vs any half decent player beyond melee range. Even if you ranged stun the target, any teammate with an instant cc can negate the ability if you attempt to cast it from range. Therefore you cannot use it from range unless all the cc is on cooldown, or every player who has a way to stop it, which is… most classes, is cc’ed at the same time.
This makes the ability absolutely bottom tier if cast from anywhere but point blank range, which causes the ability to lose all flavor.
So then that’s great? Means that it’s being treated as a charge, not a spell. So it’s following those rules, despite having a cast time.
No it is not treated as a charge. Charges continue to move, and their effects happen instantly upon cast. Which is exactly how i am saying this should work. This spell is not consistent with any other spell in the game.
Just because you can stomp some 1500 rated players your playing against casting it from 50 yards does not make it remotely viable.
It is bottlenecked into being an overtuned burst ability. If it ever loses its burst, which it probably will due to how much stronger it will become with high rank covenant traits. The entire covenant will be killed off in pvp. The ability needs to perform its role, not be some gimmick one shot.
The ability is OBVIOUSLY strong, even with this bug, because it does so much damage in a fast meta. This is not a healthy ability in this state. Due to how they took the measures to make the debuff apply through all immunities shows that they wanted this leech debuff to always be applied.
There is nothing skillful about casting the hunt from point blank range during a stun with the healer cc’ed. Thats just standard play. It just does too much damage right now due to the game pacing, and crit being unnerfed. The covenant trait will only continue to get stronger, and this ability will definitely become too strong.
Dh is almost in a spot where it must crutch on overtuned abilities like this in pvp currently due to all the nerfs and removed borrowed power. That is not healthy for the class or the game as a whole. I only care about how the class functions at the rank 1 ranges, because that is where the game needs to be balanced pvp wise. The covenant is currently strong and the best for pvp even with the bug, but that does not mean the ability is in a healthy spot. If it wasn’t for it practically one shotting right now, the ability would be worthless.
All im saying is the leech part of the ability should be applied instantly upon completion of the cast, if the damage portion can be stopped thats fine.
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Melee range always cancels the hunt for me. they just step to the left and it stops casting for some reason -_-
It’s because it’s a channel that checks whether you’re facing the enemy at the start and at the finish of it.
I had it canceled a million times on melee as well because of this. It’s clunky on melee, I agree.
I had this conversation already, none of the covenant skills for DH should’ve survived, at least for Havoc. All of them felt completely out of place and added nothing of value.