Well, 8.1 cutscenes featured noble and self-righteous Alliance heroes standing up for what is right against us evil Horde.
So, it is mostly a continuation of the dumpster fire of a Horde story that 8.0 started. Though, in the end, things are so bad it isn’t clear how you get out of it without just burning down the both factions and the faction war.
Nobody has told you whether or not you’re allowed to enjoy the story. I’m glad you are!
On the other hand, some of us are really, really tired of Blizzard constantly telling us we’re the bad guys, then going “nono, not you, you’re one of the good ones!”
I’m not posturing by saying that Blizzard has been hitting us with the villain bat. There’s just no other way to put how they’ve been treating the Horde since somewhere around mid-WotLK and we’re getting really tired of people telling us “I’m serious, they have a plan, the ending is going to be great.” when we’ve seen this song and dance before.
Honestly, if the main story was just Zandalar and Kul Tiras, this expac would have been great. It’s the war that’s horrendously done. We have the Horde being once again the disgusting evil monsters on the one hand and the Alliance being Lawful Stupid heroes who can do no wrong on the other.
Honestly, the whole deal with G’huun in the Zandalar story would have made for an epic primary storyline. In fact, I was so drawn into the story it took me a while to realize it’s second fiddle to this dumpfire of a faction war.
Literally the only reason I’m bothering at all with the war story is for Honorbound rep so I can get BfA flying whenever it drops (and maybe so I can get Mag’har as a character option). I could care less what the heck happens in the war. I just want more Zandalar content.
The funny thing is, Zandalar and Kul Tiras could have been the perfect segue into a faction war narrative.
Both factions were already de-facto at war with the Alliance and Horde before BfA. They could have just said that the troublemaker elements (The Zanchuli Council and noble houses of Kul Tiras) were pushing the nations to war in the wake of the Legion for resources and power, while the more levelheaded elements (Talanji and Taelia) sought out the Horde and Alliance respectively for allies and to help deal with troubles and traitors on the homefront.
Combine that with pre-existing grievances, the emergence of Azerite, and the opportunities created by the devastation of the Legion, there’s every reason for the factions to turn a proxy conflict into a fully-fledged world war.
Hell we could even ultimately double up on Old God machinations for the inevitable scapegoat for why the war needs to stop, given they would be way more involved in that case.
But if the movie isn’t enjoyable 1/3 or 1/2 way though, why is there the expectation of finishing it?
This is a monthly subscription game, there shouldn’t be months of unenjoyable content/story. That should specifically not be the plan.
The game is great, Warmode is an amazing idea (I spent three hours in 40 man group killing off other raids last night, with 120 total players in Drustvar, nothing like this has happened since Southshore) and as someone who has leveled undead characters throughout every expansion, I have to say that the Horde has always been complicit with the horrible things Sylvanas has always been doing, the only difference is that the average player noticed because she did it in a cutscene.
Just like everyone freaked out about Theramore (cutscenes.)
Just like nobody freaked out about all three Auchindoun instances, Gilneas, Southshore, Andorhal (the entirety of the plaguelands really,) 7 expansions of Undercity expirements, Wrathgate (cutscene blamed on Putress,) Silverpine forest (old and new, both accessible at level 15ish.)
Just like how no one freaked when Jaina had us (Yes, US) slaughter half the blood elves in Dalaran, or when alliance ships were gunning down neutral goblin vessels
Or how a ton of people were on board with Arthas’ Culling of Stratholme as a necessary evil.
Whats ruining this expansion is hearsay and shared outrage, most of you skip 90% of the quest dialogue anyway, and youve already done worse so why ruin it for yourselves? We all killed Kael’thas for no reason back in the day ( before the Kil’jeaden angle became apparent, some of you have done it thousands of times for a mount that will never drop.)
Having a problem with Horde identity? I blame in-city sharding more than anything, so find a decent guild that feels the way you do. Quit doing this to yourselves, a great time can be had by everyone, If you want to.
Side note:Everyone should level a rogue on warmode for that guerilla war feel (Just try it.)
If you’re on Moonguard and want a better Wpvp experience, add me in game, im on most nights.
It’s not like it’s just teldrassil. It’s that the entire war of thorns is crying NEs begging us to stop. Then when we raise up a few as “forsaken” their living counterparts instantly accept them and tell them to fight the darkness or stop fighting them. At least back in CATA and Wrath or any other expansion the alliance generally try to earn our ire. Now it’s like ever time we do something even questionable they ring a bell and shout SHAME.
Even our NPCs are not super into it. Garona was saying get bent for like a month. Every time an orc shows up thirsty for alliance blood I feel confused not pumped for war.
I agree that warmode is awesome, but I like for the fact pvp has been locked in that box over there and isn’t allowed out. I have rather enjoyed not having dead flightmasters or questgivers. I have no idea why it took so long to get to this.
Also Horde identity is very different if you never did/enjoy the forsaken zones to start with.
Also (this expands beyond the horde narrative to include the Alliance narrative as well) but they have not do a good story aside from the Quest Zones, although I am given to understand the horde zones have a lackluster overtone to them due to Blizzard making Zandalar weaker to make it fit under Sylvanas instead of as a equal partner.
Also the pre-patch event wrote a check I don’t have faith in blizzard being able to cash narratively. If Sylvanas doesn’t face justice then it is a let down to the Alliance in general and the night elves specifically. If she does face justice then the horde in general and the forsaken specifically are let down. There is no winning for Blizzard and they have to pick their poison.
But you are right in that Sylvanas has been evil for quite some time and the quest experience does show it.
Not always, for everyone. Particularly in the early expansions, what happened in Undercity stayed in Undercity. If you leveled in Kalimdor, you probably weren’t even aware of a good portion of it.
I feel like a lot of what you’re saying just doesn’t apply to many of the posters here. I’m not sure why you’re saying nobody freaked out over the Purge of Dalaran, which was hotly argued for a long time afterward, or what relevance stuff like the Auchindoun instances or the Kael’thas raid have to complaints about the story now. TBC’s plot back then was garbage and wasn’t any deeper than “Word of God says X is evil, go stop them”.
Not sure what war mode has to do with the plot, either. Not saying you’re wrong for enjoying it, but having it on or not doesn’t really affect the story Blizzard’s writing in the expansion, which is what people here have been talking about.
How weird is it that the guy who is upfront about enjoying the expansion seems to take extreme offense at others ‘not’ enjoying it.
Im mr. Meseeks look at me.
I was actually feeling singled out for enjoying it.
Why would I be offended?
Dude, nobody is hating on you for enjoying it.
We’re not appreciating the fact that you’re telling us we’re wrong because we aren’t enjoying it.
This is exactly what happened to that first dwarf who discovered the Balrog in Moria. I have dug too deep, and have found an ancient evil. This always happens in forums.
I will mourn you guys when you unsubscribe.
No one was talking to you directly on the subject of enjoying the expac or not until you straight up talked down on everyone who isn’t enjoying it. I don’t know why you’re taking a bunch of random people on the internet complaining about aspects of a story they don’t like so personally, but just as you are allowed to enjoy the story other people are allowed to not enjoy it.
You’ve had nothing but an uppity condescending attitude for this entire conversation. Of course people aren’t going to appreciate it.
You like everything. That’s fair. What isn’t fair is talking down on everyone for not liking what you like. Which you are still doing in your last comment.
Either have a discussion without insulting everyone else or go someplace else. I can understand feeling awkward about having an unpopular opinion, but you’re not being attacked for liking the expansion. Our beef is entirely with the expansion itself, not you.
You are mistaken.
Okay. Think we’ll live.
I came across an assault quest that set off some actual faction pride for me. It would be the one involving void elves corrupting raptors with Void energy and oh man did it make me mad. My immediate thought was “okay, Alliance, guess corruption is all fine and dandy when it’s benefiting you”.
This is the first and so far only time I actually felt real hostility towards Alliance in this expansion instead of feeling like I’m playing the villain. And honestly, it would be great if both sides have their fair share of doing things that are clearly sinister (I haven’t done enough quests to comment more).
It also reminds me that it doesn’t seem Blizz has really bothered addressing why the Alliance seems to be perfectly accepting void elves even though they deal with literal dark magic? Besides I guess the fact they’re useful. Seems like as long as Alleria is vouching for them, no one cares because she’s “helping them learn to control their powers” or something. And I guess corrupting the wildlife is okay as long as it’s in enemy territory.
Don’t get me wrong; from a writing perspective, I like that we see Alliance doing morally questionable things. The problem is, it probably only is phrased as villainous from the Horde side. Someone who’s done the quest on the Alliance side please correct me if I’m wrong though; I just see Alliance players running around with void-corrupted raptors to parallel Horde side having Children of Gonk.
If Blizz could make things like this a more major detail, I would enjoy the faction war more.
When I played through it, I did pause to reflect when Umbric described his ritual. He said something about taking advantage of Zandalar’s “primitive superstitions” or something. But I decided I actually like it. First, while void-corrupted ravasaurs is bad, it still pales in comparison to what Sylvanas and the Forsaken do on a regular basis. More to the point, I like that the Alliance has some dark magic of our own. The Forsaken have been getting away with their dirty tricks for years now, and I like that the Void Elves are evening the score a little bit. So, overall, I like it. It felt like the Alliance was finally getting serious about taking the fight to the Horde, and I imagine its good for motivating Horde players as well. I think BfA could do with more similar content, so long as we don’t follow Sylvanas to genocide land.
To your question, it wasn’t really treated by Umbric as a villainous act. More as a creative but dangerous tactic. He explicitly said we were taking advantage of Zandalari culture and beliefs, and it certainly did feel morally questionable. That being said, I think most Ally players will blow through it without much reflection.
I think having void elves be the Alliance’s equivalent to Forsaken would be a pretty cool idea. It would also help balance out the moral ambiguity between the factions too. A good chunk of it lands on Horde side when it does happen because Blizz apparently doesn’t know how to present anything the Alliance does as a whole as anything short of heroic.
Personally, I was always uncomfortable with doing morally questionable things on the side of the Horde even when it’s phrased as purely strategic (I hate literally any quest that involves Blight). It gets extra awkward when Wild Gods are involved because outside of Legion where everyone is united, they are typically with the Alliance. But Loa are pretty much the trolls’ equivalent to Wild Gods so it’s nice to have the tables flipped for a change and have Horde being on the side of these beings that watch over various aspects of the natural world.