She already did lose her honor by burning the tree with tons of innocents in it and did you forget using the plague on her own troops at undercity or the plot about jaina’s brother? There is no honor or glory in that. She will do wathever to survive, leading the Horde is just the best way for her to do that, for now.
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no that is the BFA retcon for dark wardens and now night elf dark rangers. And that too has been debated. I can see Sira pissed at Tyrande. I am a night elf DH this char …I’d like to beat the crap out of her for a prison sentence I had to serve when I did nothing wrong. I killed demons…went to jail for it. I can see Tyrande hate.
One of the Sira debates is not why did she hate tyrande…its why is she down for the banshees plans now. See to many the Sira we have in our heads would kill Nathanos then…tyrande. Tyrande would die. After Nathanos.
And the tidesage who was going to die anyway. And he did not join “for the horde”. He wanted his family take care of. Choices made with a gun at your head are not choices. Dude was going to die…he accepted that. And put terms on his death. For his family…not the horde.
Why else has the dark lady never started recruiting live people. Dear sir, would you like to for for the forsaken army. 3 squares a day. Your monthly pay is this. Sound good?
She uses the same mechanics as arthas did. You will note once his power was slipping, no large armies of DK’s were going…dude…I got you man.
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Nope, all Forsaken have always had a choice, like the tidesage you mentioned who while alive, pledged his allegiance to the Horde.
This is common ground for the nations of Lordaeron and Quel’thalas to join the Horde, at first not for them, but for their survival, something the Horde has always been about.
Through her, and the nation of Lordaeron, unrecognized by the new Stormwind Alliance, the Blood Elves have joined the Horde, and without her would not have a common middleman to do so. By the way, your refusal to see live and undead free-willed people as those who have equal power of choice is troubling.
You’re right, she uses the same method of raising undead, however without the Lich King’s former power on the scale of Warcraft 3: TFT, they have free will, and that’s an argument that’s not debatable. Her reputation is why people stay loyal to her.
I genuinely apologize for the many edits, I should include all my points in the first edition of my post as much as possible.
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no. the little spirit dot bit is a bfa thing.
My first char was a BE hunter. Did the 20 bit…went to the outskirts of lordearon to see sylvanas, orc, etc.
In the pit. Some recently dead alliance troops. Val’kyr do their thing. And new troops. now little spirit saying nope.
Later on, 3 gilnean heroes. They discuss the bene’s of undeath. Not hungry anymore and oh yeah…some desire to server the dark lady they’d not normally have. That desire wears off ofc. They try to kill her.
I know you are going off of PC forsaken creation. You can’t do that. Its means nothing. you see I am illidari. My lord and master is Illidan and his plan. Neither Anduin/Tyrande nor Sylvanas/Lord Regent according to my creation lore mean anything to me. BFA says nope…they are your bosses now
I’d love to let you have this. Once you get me my illdari back the way we are supposed to be, you can have PC forsaken creation count again. Till then…we are both screwed really.
Long story short this game makes up stuff in player creation that does not matter in terms of game play.
Also I am told if you make a forsaken, your choice is death or serve sylvanas. As any other way leads to death. Like if an ATM asks you do you accept the charges. You keep selecting no. You will never get your money till you say…yes.
No, they’re willing. This is backed by the lore.
Those three always had this opinion, and were waiting for the right time.
Nope
Can’t raise undead twice, unless a Val’kyr sacrifices themselves.
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Nathanos is great
Full of brooding
Willing to go toe-to-toe with any of the alliance champions
clever, wit, sarcasm
Unfaltering loyalty
Embodiment of the forsaken
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Nathanos is the worst character ever created it ; he cant handle any champion 1 vs 1 of the Alliance , he is simply an archer . . . ok a ranger . … but we kill a lot of his kind in the Alliance quest so yeah . … hes pretty useless , but have his armor character is up so . . . yeah hes not dying soon . . .maybe .
After thrall and garrosh , all heroes of the horde are so boring , and maybe because they kill everysingle hero that is gonna have a great history . At this point the horde is still that secondary faction that has always been.
How easy it is for a player character, on both factions is not relevant to how well written Nathanos is.
Also keep in mind, player characters on both factions are long time veterans of the Alliance and Horde, they have canonically fought (with help) Illidan, (with help) the Lich King, (with help) Deathwing, (with help) Garrosh, led the entirety of each faction’s campaign into alternate Draenor, wielded intense artifacts like Ashbringer, and have brought Zandalar and Kul Tiras to their factions.
I feel that someone like Nathanos, we’re stronger than. But someone like Sylvanas? Probably not.
I can tell that if we are talking about the Nathanos from vanilla to cataclysm , a good dark ranger but not enough stronk to fight for example . . .malfurion ? tyrande !!! , even greymane in wolf form . … 0 LOGIC.
Hes a good character but put it like he has some special power is like meeh . . . hes a really good ranger maybe the best but cant win against gods or semi gods . Is just dumb.
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bfa is wod tier bad but isnt set in an alternate dimension so all the awful consequences cant be forgotten
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Genn’s son was killed by Sylvanas and his homeland was nuked by her blight. His hatred of the horde isn’t crazy. It’s human.
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they are doing not doing a bad job they are doing a terrible job, they are doing a rehashed story to do the same thing again but even more crap
who wanted this anyway? i don’t want to feel disgusted to play my own faction because its hijacked by edgy people who want to do evil stuff
I don’t want they throwing in my face how i am foul, bad and retarded and there is nothing i can do about if its not be the benevolent opposite faction.
I want to have a good time with the faction that i used to play with the shamanistic, tribal and honorable theme, with different groups banding together for survival, with their cool characters not to have a inner deep conflict of good and evil again like they are thinking wow is a best seller with lots of twists and deep writing.
The new writing team looks like they don’t know what the factions were supposed to be
We have Saurfang.
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that’s because they are villains.
“I’ve just captured the Alliance’s strongest foothold in Kalimdor. Yay! But ho! What is that over there??! A port? We can’t have those hippy elves using the port to recapture this incredibly strategic, important location that gives us tons of leverage and bargaining power. I guess we should destroy the port infrastructure, or use our fleet to create a blockade - NO! I have a better idea. Let’s burn the tree!”
What
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…but why would I cheer for Sourfang?
He doesn’t care about me. And wouldn’t be trying to “rebel” against Sylvanas if Anduin didn’t tell him to.
Ugh, no.
That fool put Garrosh in charge because of his racist, prejudiced ideas.
Sylvanas has some more ![:poop:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/poop.png?v=6" ":poop:")
to throw at the wall before all is said and done.
Sylvanas is worse than Garrosh in many ways, and because of that she is definitely not someone to cheer for. Sadly as the only original Hordr leader left (something I’m very much unhappy with) her poorly written character arcs hurts all the more. It just sucks.
Saurfang And Baine are at least standing up against her. A Mak’gora would never fly because Sylvanas would cheat. It was shown when Saurfang attempted to challenge Malfurion to one and the Night Elf laughed in his face. It is an Orc practice, one that the Tauren respected when it was an Orc leader (Cairne vs. Garrosh) but everyone knows Sylvanas would merely assassinate the challenger days before the Mak’Gora even began. This is Sylvanas we’re talking about; unfair, dishonorable, cares only for herself and not even her own people. I thought she was turning over a new leaf after seeing the BfA cinematic trailer, but ultimately she’s simply doubling down on the boring, self-centered woman she always has been.
As for why she is worse than Garrosh, there are many reasons:
-started a war the Horde wasn’t prepared for because she has this paranoia about war being inevitable, despite evidence showing even Greymane coming around to accepting Forsaken and the leader of the Alliance being Anduin the Peaceful
-betrayed her own people’s beliefs and the ideals of the other races. Whole Garrosh was anti-Troll, he did still accept anyone who shared his ideology. It was what made him an interesting leader. Sylvanas broke her own ideology when she attempted to use Derek as a weapon. The Forsaken identity is self and choice, and she was willing to give that all up for this stupid war. Once one loses who they were, what is the purpose of winning the war? She’s no better than the Scourge at that point. And of course, removing honor and integrity from the races that idolize those ideologies
-killed and raised Horde troops in Lordaeron. See, the difference between the Horde and Alliance is the Alliance get a choice (oh hey, the buzz word of the Forsaken used against them). They got to choose to be the sacrificial lambs in Nazmir, they chose to give up their lives for a chance at victory. Horde soldiers got no such luxury. If they were even a bit too slow, their illustrious leader decided their lives weren’t worth saving and so she gased them to death. To add insult to injury, she raised their bodies after. Many of the Horde revere the dead and their ancestry. Denying them the right to see the souls of their deceased because they were trapped in bone cages of their own bodies would be downright horrific to them. Not to mention, again, killed by the Warchief’s commands
-massacred her own people for DARING to show hope. How DARE her own civilians show an interest in seeing their loving families. Better have everyone shot down like animals, including those running back to her. Garrosh never killed his own kind unless they stood directly against him. Sylvanas literally butchers her own people because humans are more accepting of the Forsaken than she anticipated and she couldn’t stand the idea that she was wrong or could lose the loyalty her people have for her. Because she wants to be at war, she doesn’t want any kind of peace. Wouldn’t be surprised if after the Alliance were gone, she started butchering the rest of the Horde and perhaps even her own people.
-burned civilians rather than attacking the military. Garrosh’s mana bomb was awful for what it was as a WMD. But he targeted military targets to cripple the Alliance army. These military targets were high ranking officers of the Alliance army, and while I will never agree with it, at least they were valid targets. Sylvanas target innocent civilians while the bulk of the Night Elf army wasn’t even there. She was cowardly in that act, and also didn’t do any form of crippling the Night Elves because all of the fighters are still alive. So she killed civilians for the sake of killing
She’s actually a moronic leader with no redeeming qualities. I had hoped this would be the story of her learning how to accept and lead the Horde, but instead it’s MoP 2.0 with a bigger idiot as the final boss. Once she’s gone, at least we may be able to finally start recovering.
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The horde have no hero, due to them being the villians. They have always been the villains of warcraft, we just put our old hatreds aside due us facing several greater foes.
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they killed off the horde heros and thrall is no where to be found.im sure thrall will show up at some point in bfa and become the warcheif by the end of the xpac.