Talent trees will always be a problem. People wanted classic back because of nostalgia. It’s funny as hell to see all this about classic falling classic changes etc but it’s not the real experience and it was already done ages ago. I am glad I don’t live in the past but I can pick up something and play it for what it is.
LOL wut. Retail looks 100x better than classic and I NEVER die to invisible mechanics. If anything classic is the one with broke mechanics. Threat all over the place, parry haste, glitches constantly.
Don’t be bad lol.
Oh wait you’re a classic player trying to convince ppl how hard leveling in red ridge was. Hint: it wasn’t.
That moment when people legit think wotl was way harder lmao.
Brings back memories of people saying classic was gonna be super hard and people wasn’t ready for that lol
Ty for that op I needed that laugh 
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Cataclysm launch actually made a ton of prople quit. Not because oh heirlooms or RDF being “easy” outlets. People were getting absolutely farmed in raid and heroic dungeons because it was such a step up.
As far as dungeons being hard. Everyone i know, hated TBC heroics. They hit like raid bosses for no reason. Having to cc every pack i dont think adds anything to the gameplay. It iust slows things down and bottlenecks you into bringing certain classes.
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That’s a huge stretch bud. Let this abomination die. They milked this dying game enough.
It’s a terrible Mexican restaurant that a bunch of people with bad taste eat at like it’s a religious experience. My entire experience there was going in attempting to find a job when I was 19-ish and thinking the decor looked like a prison.
If by thought you mean “grab the build off of Wowhead because the playerbase optimized the fun out of leveling” then maybe.
By the time we got to Legion while doing that the skill trees would look like we’re playing Path of Exile.
If they listened to anyone besides the loudest #nochanges whiners they might not get yelled at every time something changes.
Compared to Vanilla, maybe.
Only in the sense you need to invest a certain number of points into your main spec before you can put any into another. Past Cata, I won’t disagree with the way abilities got reworked, but IN Cata it’s still a skill tree, just with actually useful stuff.
Someone didn’t play much BfA.
You mean like Frost Mage in TBC and Wrath?
Try leveling a new character in Retail and don’t change your equipment at all for 20 levels; trying to stay alive when fighting multiple enemies in that situation is WAY more lethal than anything I’ve seen in Wrath.
This is actually what I’ve been doing; while I prefer the entire UI design in Wrath alongside the lack of noise, as Dan Olson put it, Retail does have a lot going for it with the level scaling. Right now I’m playing through all the redone Vanilla areas since I don’t remember/never did the quests on my first main back in the day, and outside of really wanting to find more Iron Deposits, it’s going well.
Doesn’t hurt that the baseline reward for a normal quest is about 24g, either. XD
Which is the first half of the phrase and only really used by entitled (remaining words censored due to Blizz policy on swearing), with the entire phrase being “the customer is always right in matters of taste”, something everyone seems to forget.
The trade spam in Stormwind on Stormrage would differ greatly in this matter.
Boosting was a thing in Vanilla Classic, leading to a bunch of capped players who had no idea how to play the class they were because they’d done essentially zero work.
A Retail class now might level faster, but it’s still slow enough to at least get a handle on the basic mechanics.
It’s less that and more “either make raids that assume players have stuff like DBM and Weakauras installed and give them a challenge, or assume they don’t and have players that DO have those steamroll everything within ten minutes.”
If you mean Horizon: Zero Dawn…that would be a terrible idea. The reason tab-target MMOs are a thing is because latency exists. Go play Dungeons and Dragons Online, an MMO almost as old as WoW WITH action-based combat instead of tag-target, and see just how much even a latency of 100ms messes with how the game flows.
It’s always fun trying to grab a ladder three times because the game didn’t recognize the first two attempts.
I’m a living counterpoint to that, since I didn’t do that because high-risk-high-reward gameplay doesn’t work in an MMO; this isn’t GTA.
HEY!
That’s the zone I’m working on right now. 
I wouldn’t exactly call the playerbase of it people I want to interact with or exist near…but Tera comes to mind.
Wildstar (from what I’ve heard, anyway; I didn’t get out of the Goldshire-esque zone before getting bored) promised hard raids, and while it delivered, the population wasn’t exactly high enough to ensure those raids were possible to do.
Who put me in this chicken**** outfit?
Some of the most recent dungeons, yes, DUNGEONS in FFXIV give you about one second of reaction time with the visible cones on some boss abilities that, if they don’t outright kill you, debuff you in a way that ensures the next one WILL kill you. This isn’t even mentioning the one boss where you have about 8 seconds to do a simple math problem to avoid, well, an ability that if it doesn’t outright kill you, debuffs you in a way that ensures the next one WILL kill you.
Actually, I think that “Classic BFA” could be bomb…All they have to do, really, is lower dumb AP grind early on and bring corruptions from P1.
Generally speaking, if Devs really take a look at a lot of QoL changes in minor patches and apply those right off the bat, things would be so much better.
Look at Shadowlands.
Release free covenant swap, renown catch up, unlocked Torghast, quicker lego farms, xfer anima/cinders/ash from day 1, and the experience WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTERRRRR
I was more referring to it being, afaik, the worst expansion WoW’s had…for multiple reasons, my biggest one being the whole “committing a war crime with a Firelands elemental” thing that happens.
I would, had I actually finished it or even gotten to level cap.
fair enough.
I didn’t play BFA until 8.3, but I absolutely nerded the 
out of Shadowlands on multiple toons.
Don’t be bad?? This is coming from the one who thinks Retail raiding is hard??
Yes, Retail generally looks better than classic, but they got my character’s face and mullet WRONG! 
He looks terrible right now, and I’d like the option to use the older models for that. Doesn’t harm anyone if I do that.
And yes, you do die to invisible mechanics, you just lack the observational skills to point out the problem. Additionally, you most likely use addons…
I think you either have a poor memory, or didn’t play TBC heroics back in the day.
Either way, Retail is a woke joke and bugged up as hell.
Not sure what you mean in your first paragraph. Were getting farmed? That’s a PvP term generally speaking. Do you mean the raids were getting farmed? Because that’s any expansion.
They hated those heroics because they wanted an easy, lazy, brainless pew pew kill game. Challenging battles like that require actual thinking and problem solving skills, which makes the game much better. Having teamwork and strategy is what made this game fun. They’re the types who got this game ruined in the first place, by demanding a dumber game.
Indeed. It’d be great if they fixed the hit boxes and graphics to match up with the attacks so that you can visually see and avoid such a attacks. And yes, Horizon: Zero Dawn. Whatever it’s called. The gameplay is fantastic.
I’ve played games like that before and latency wasn’t too big of an issue. Overwatch works just fine most of the time, and even in WoW, all our cone based attacks and catapults work just find - all aimed attacks. The latency argument was debunked from day one. They probably just need to stop being cheap on servers. The gameplay in Horizon was fantastic and actually required skill, so that’s a massive upgrade. Tab targeting is obsolete.
I don’t care if retail is woke or not, this idea that the old xpacs were super duper harder is hilarious, especially after classic getting completely dominated despite y’all thinking it would be insanely hard.
Wake up to reality
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Wat
My assumption is that the intended meaning is that players got roflstomped in the raids.
I’d bring up Tera again, but since the PC version got shut down, unless you wanna install the console version it’s kind of irrelevant. 
Nerdslayer has a video on the differences between the two, and normally I’d watch it to make sure it says what I’m trying to get across, I’m getting ready for work right now. 
Rofl ok bro.
Youre still wrong but also…
Aaaaaaaaaaaand you’re done here
Thanks for playing.
If you’re talking the highest end raiding sure, retail is harder. It had to be because of the way “pro guilds” are evolving and Blozzard trying to market the “race to world first.”
To the point they just entirely overshot it with fights like Anduin (or that entire raid really) where even the world first guilds were like “Naw F this, we’ll see you in 3 months” before a series of nerfs.
Retail is absolutely harder in the purely reactive/tuning sense, but its still a worse game.
You clearly didn’t play any of this back when it was new. Blizzard eventually patched the game into easy mode because of players like you who didn’t want to apply strategy. If you’d been around since beta, like me, you’d know better. WoW Classic is not the game we played back then.
That’s another topic for another thread, but yeah, the woke/political allegories being added to this game are jarring and emersion-breaking in my opinion.
Now that makes more sense. Yes, we got stomped, but it was all the more better when we finally won through with strategy.
Lol, it’s okay, I know what you’re talking about. Tera was a garbage game that had the right idea in many ways. What it lacked was an interesting world and character creation. I never tried it, but the gameplay seemed to work well, despite the world and character concept being extremely boring. I try not to conflate the gameplay with the success of the game, because there’s so many other factors involved to making an interesting world.
Star Wars the Old Republic had many good points to it in terms of its interactive storytelling. Things that would definitely make WoW better. Sadly they used a clunkier version of an already outdated gameplay system, and the visuals weren’t that great. The game failed for a number of reasons, just like WoW succeeded for a number of reasons, but both can be better.
I feel WoW would be better with an interactive story, voiced quests, and hack and slash + 3rd person shooter gameplay.
Whine to someone who cares. Not sorry.
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Cata classic hype! I can’t wait to have fun leveling my goblin warrior through RDF and having a blast.
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Absolutely. And human hunters. AND transmogrification finally! It’s a great expansion, minus what it did to our specs. I was just playing my warrior as well the other day and thinking about all the effectiveness that gets lost in Cata. Wrath just had better talents and scaling.
Oh but I think you are, and you’re a coward too.
This usually what someone says when they’re afraid of getting destroyed in a debate. I can assure you, my vocabulary is vastly superior to yours, and that my views are far more in touch with reality than yours. We’re living in a generation of science deniers on both sides. Neither of you are right.
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Lol good talk. Room temp IQ confirmed.
I highly doubt that. And I’m not going to get into a debate on the objectivity of science with you on the WOW forums but clearly one side has decided manipulating science and objective fact is in their interest to a much greater degree than the other. Nice try at the false equivocation though. 3/10.
Like the Defias Brotherhood being made up of people from the Stonemason’s Guild, the people who rebuilt Stormwind after the Second War and got shafted afterwards thanks to Katrina Prestor? The people who effectively rebelled against Stormwind for an entirely justifiable grievance and in return got slaughtered wholesale by, well, us? That’s not even getting into the Westfall revamp in Cata that continued the story.
…So a completely different game, then? This isn’t Mass Effect.