The Forsaken's Aesthetic

Lore Story Forum
21

I do. I WANT CALIA. Well kind of. More than Sylvanas, at least. If they used Calia to pivot into some restored version of Lordaeron that’s like a gothy Baroque setting complete with lots of organs (hurhur) then I think that could be a cool new direction for the Forsaken.

@Benedikt:

That’s an interesting concept that I haven’t thought about in years tbh. I was actually originally kind of put off by how human the Forsaken were. Coming from WC3’s Ghouls, I kind of expected them to be pretty monstrous. I assume that it was a conscious decision to human-ify them a bit for the purpose of wearing weapons and armor and what not, but you’re right that there was still a feral air to any number of them.

The more recent expansions/stories seem like they’ve moved away from that aspect of the Forsaken, but I think it’s worth preserving so that they remain very distinct from Humans.

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22

These zombies look like spriggans

23

You are not a true Forsaken fan. You are an alliance puppet just like Calia.

24

If I ever needed Forsaken ideas, even as a prior long time Forsaken player, Bene is always the guy to go to. I’d give him development lead of the Forsaken in a heartbeat.

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25

Hey man, if you want to rally behind Sylvanas and her one-way street of loyalty then that’s all you.

But you can’t ever take away my Forsaken card. I had it laminated and keep it safely in my Dark Ranger-skin wallet.

26

Oh the Death Guard is one of the larger players. Especially for Chaos. They have their own codex and they are hitting hart, both in lore and on tabletop. They don’t grab my attention, that’s what I meant. Even the way a lot of Nurgle worshiper’s were corrupted by Chaos is often rather boring and too easy for me (ok, others were corrupted because of a demon sword…).
Depends if you mean in lore, most played, or their rules. Chaos, Empire (Guard and Space Marines), Nekrons, Orks and Tyranids (simplified).
Most other factions and Xenos have a ruff time (whiteout going more in to detail. It would derail too much).

I can see why some think of the Death Guard. It makes sense if you look only at the blight (and some rot). I don’t think their movement is fitting for the Forsaken though. They are very slow, zombie like and closer to an abomination with a snails pace. They can also absorb a lot of damage.

Looking at 40K I think the movement of Necron flayers are better fitting for the Forsaken. It’s was more spooky and uncanny.

Please don’t. Really don’t. Kill Calia off. Light Undead are simply horrible.

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27

I think Voss fits the Forsaken aesthetic more than Calia, at least. I’d be fine with her as a leader - maybe not THE leader, but a leader like Rokhan.

I’d rather Calia fell back into whatever plothole the writers dredged her out of.

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28

Well I don’t want the Forsaken to all become light wielders, if that’s what you’re insinuating.

But I wouldn’t mind if they used Calia to appropriate a fantasy inquisition kind of vibe for the race as a whole. Lordaeron was always the most devout of the Human capitals, so it’d be cool to see a twisted reflection of that, especially since it would kind of mirror the Scarlet Crusade which was also largely Lordaeronian.

Up till now, the overall Forsaken culture has just been ScourgeLite and I’d kind of like to see some separation from that.

I’m aware that I’m probably on the fringes with this opinion. I’m just bored of the circular story and stagnant racial dynamics. Something dramatically different would be fun to me.

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29

I actually don’t hate Calia. But I just can’t see her as supreme leader of the Forsaken. She’s described in SR as ‘smooth and unblemished, glowing from within with a soft, arresting light’.

And that’s just so off brand for the Forsaken. I’m all for good aligned Forsaken characters. I’ve a soft spot for monstrous looking things that are actually quite gentle and friendly. But Calia isn’t monstrous and is more angelic than spooky.

Ideally I’d have her, Faol and Zelik working to rehabilitate the Scarlet Risen and interacting with the Argent Dawn on behalf of the Forsaken. Calia’s rightful claim to the throne of Lordaeron could help legitimize the Forsaken as the rightful heirs and rulers of Lordaeron.

But I’d keep her as a figurehead. Focused more on inhumanitarian work, diplomacy and just generally popping up when the Forsaken need a softer face.

While the governing is actually handled by a new Desolate Council. Run by a representative from RAS, the CoFS, the Deathstalkers and a civilians minded people’s champ.

And I’d pick Calder Gray, an undead Natalie Seline, the Black Bride and Voss to play those roles.

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30

Ok, I have a question.

So, the way the Light affects the undead is known:

Record of undead emoting positive emotions are rare, though there are reports, however, that some Forsaken have slowly experienced a sharpening of their dulled senses of touch, smell, etc., as well as an increase in the flashes of positive emotions that have otherwise become so rare since their fall into undeath, when influenced by the Holy Light. The drawback however, is that they also become disgusted with themselves and are likely to increase attempts at their own self-destruction; for regaining these senses would force the undead to smell their own rotting flesh, taste the decay in their mouths and throats, and even feel the maggots burrowing within their bodies.

© https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Forsaken

So, we have Calia, who might be a conduit of naaru powers. Which means that being exposed, aka just being nearby in my understanding, is enough to alter all the forsaken in a way that “restores their senses and emotions” so to say.

I mean yeah, there are definitely those among the forsaken who would be glad to be less like undead and restore the mental state they had in life.

But what would the other do? Would we get a mass suicide attempts (given the self-destruction side effect) among the forsaken?

She is not a lightbulb to turn on or off the effect whenever she feels like it, I assume. So, whether they like it or not, all who is with her will be affected.

Now, I think that might be a good progression for Calia being in Oribos, because the affected forsaken, including Lilian, might get a chance to feel the difference in their mental state when Calia is not nearby. And decide if they are ok with what that got them through.

But still, given all of that, how would it be possible without retcons keep Calia among the horde and not utterly remove the forsaken fantasy from the game in the process?
:thinking:

gl hf

31

That lore came from an ask a dev round of questions for Wrath, and doesn’t really come up anywhere in the game. Not anywhere I’ve noticed at least, and I main an undead Priest so I try to keep a look out for these things.

Granted I’ve never seen anything explicitly refuting that lore in game either. But between Calia, the LForged DKs and Maldraxxus showing undeath isn’t inherently evil or unnatural, I do sort of consider that softly retconned.

32

Yeah. And what seems the oddest to me, is that Sally Whitemane, who as a DK was using concecration spell since the day she was turned, and ultimately was raised because of her connection with the Light, in the last short story acts as if she does not know what it’s like to use the Light magic as undead.

However, if the intention of We Ride Forth was to show the Mograine perspective on the situation, it’s fine.

I can’t think of anywhere else for this info other than something from Sally or Alonsus. Maybe. Eventually.

This is an odd thing. Because in one event the Light is too weak to do anything, and Zeliek was still a “puppet” in actions, yet at the Light’s Hope the Light managed to give freedom to a bunch of DKs right in front of the Lich King. Speaking of consistency in the lore…

The part about the souls of undead being imperfectly attached was also repeated before Shadowlands:

And we’ve seen that being raised can result in certain different circumstances. One person who’s raised may be very much intact. They may essentially be the same person that they were in life. Others are more aggressive, more hateful or more scornful than they were in life. And part of that has to do with the manner in which they’re raised. There’s all kinds of factors that go into that. So I would say that being raised that way is something of an imperfect process.

© http://lorekeeper.net/en/maldraxxus-shadowlands-and-beyond-interview-with-steve-danuser/

Maybe it is, and that would be the only way to make it work.

But… if it’s not? And the Light is still the path to undead that want to be less undead, what would that lead to, in your opinion?

:thinking:

gl hf

33

Calia being even more antithetical to the Forsaken than she already is.

Although with that whole “Oh they can feel maggots in their skin” deal and the like - why wouldn’t they just get new skin? Or blast their arms with pesticide, not like it’d hurt them.

We see Forsaken repairing themselves so often I’m sure at least a few have gone through some Ship of Thesius esque existential crisis already. Just get a fresher body part. Not that hard to do. Plenty of potential organ donors all over Azeroth.

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