The Night Elves show up in WC3 to get chumped, despite Grom’s praise, have to get helped out. Still getting attacked through Vanilla and Burning Crusade. Weirdly chumped in Cataclysm. Lost a lot in Battle for Azeroth. At what point do you just accept that’s how it is? Or maybe, just maybe, you can see nuance beyond just your limited fandom.
The beginning, sure.
That’s observable false. We’ve seen numerous instances of the Horde trying to save life in say WC3, Burning Crusade, and Legion, off the dome.
They only stop trying to genocide any group that doesn’t swear loyalty to their Genocide Chief when something else bigger than them shows up and wants to add them to the list of things to get genocided.
Pretty sure it’s just themselves. Anyone else getting saved is usually an unintended side effect. Sometimes even when there is a big bad force trying to wipe them out they still can’t keep themselves from trying also wipe out the Alliance.
I don’t think it does. Shandris was not a member of the Army of the Black Moon, but she did fight alongside it in Darkshore for a time before pulling a Nathanos. My point is that the Army of the Black Moon is not the entirety of the Night Elven Military and did not have the entire Night Elf military at it’s disposal for the entirety of the battle for Darkshore.
That’s a direct hit to the Army of the Black Moon’s manpower, who already were not in a position to assail Orgrimmar, else Tyrande would have likely done so as the avatar of Elune’s vengeance.
Even with the General of the Sentinels and Kal’dorei forces on his side, Anduin only had the forces for that one push. I do not believe the Army of the Black Moon would have accounted for that deficit.
That’s been the dev’s goals all along. Get the factions to hate each other and motivate more people for PVP play.
The Alliance has all the super-dudes. They have Jaina, Khadgar, Malfurion, Tyrande, and Anduin. The best that the Horde can offer up right now is a de-powered World Shaman.
Um… But that’s my point. The Army of the Black Moon (including Gilneans) won the Darkshore Warfront proper without Shandris or her forces. Shandris ended up in Nazjatar, but there were no Night Elf ships that fell into the trap, and Shandris’ forces showed up in force at Orgrimmar after Nazjatar even after some of theirs participating in thr suicide mission in Nazmir.
Neither the forces Anduin could call upon nor the Nazjatar trap affected the Army of the Black Moon, as I originally said.
Night Elf ships however were lost at the Burning of Teldrassil, at least one was captured by orc commandos, some others were sunk by burning debris, and I believe others were taken out by catapults.
As you pointed out, the Alliance would have had victory within a few week, and in those weeks the Army of the Black Moon would have continued without Anduin’s ships, regardless if he had them or lost them to Nazjatar.
If this was their goal, then making a stupid story was the dumbest possible way to fix it, as opposed to doing stuff like fixing sharding and not letting gross imbalances persist in Warmode.
In any case, the problem as I see it is thus. The Horde’s story is beyond repair, and most of us know it. The honestly best option for Blizzard is probably to just sweep this under the rug as fast as they can and never talk about it unless pressed to, because they have to know that they constructed a story with no satisfying endings for anyone.
So it was unconvincing in both situations. Basically Blizzard failed to satisfy anyone. Would you be happy if they put in effort and still you got nothing satisfying out of it? I thought your issue was that it was unsatisfying.
If this is the greatest Horde expansion ever than it just goes to show how crap the Horde’s narrative treatment as been in WoW. We either are ignored or made to play the bad guys but told we are not because of a lot of empty meaningless words which are easily proven false.
Perhaps seeing elements of the Horde not being psychopathic thugs and monsters might actually make some Alliance players think ‘hey, the horde aren’t all psychopathic thugs and monsters and maybe there is a reason we don’t genocide every last one of them the way we do with the Legion or the Scourge or pretty much any other evil threat’.
At least it would be a chance for the Horde to be shown actually contributing to heroic actions for once.
I don’t see why you would be opposed to this. It doesn’t seem that unreasonable. The Horde players certainly has to run support for Alliance leaning characters. We have had Brann, Magni, Khadgar, Velen, Tyrande, Malfurion, Alleria, Turalyon and even Anduin at one point.
That said, I would suspect Vol’jin would be the more likely candidate for Shadowlands. At the same time I could very easily see the Horde players somehow having to work with Tyrande again in Shadowlands since the factions are getting left on Azeroth so almost all content will be neutral or covenant based.
Fun fact. The first time orcs meet NEs it was because the NEs went on a kill spree. In the history of Warcraft the NEs were the first to attack.
Wow. It amazes me you cant see the hypocrisy in what your saying. That is like me saying that if you didn’t want to be nothing but a victim and only a victim then you shouldn’t have rolled a NE. Guess we both picked the wrong race to role there huh?
If I have nothing to complain about, which is what you are suggesting, you have nothing to complain about.
You mean apart from the Tauren and the Darkspear trolls. They joined the Horde because the Orcs went out of their way to save them. Generally, save for the humans on Kalimdor, the Horde only really attacked groups who attacked them first in WC3.
I am sure the Alliance could survive Tyrande and Shandris betraying them and turning into villains. Don’t think Alliance players, and NE players in particular, would be happy with that though.
What you don’t seem to understand here is that you can’t save the Horde story, there’s no forward, there’s no further progress if you don’t repair the damage this story has done to the victims of this story, or let them address it in a way that you can really draw a line under it.
In other words, the Horde will be the last faction that really comes to rest if you just ignore it, on the contrary, I’d have even more reasons not to play it anymore although I have a Horde Main character. (A Warlock).
And that’s why I’m so in favor of the night elves dealing a painful blow to the Horde, honestly, as long as the night elves just take back the territories they had and have been fighting for since Classic, it’s going to be a lot easier than what we’re facing, which is years of being dragged through the cocoa.
And do you honestly think after what happened that the Horde can still be called a Hero Faction? Please, don’t kid yourself.
Well, I have to agree here, if this is a pure horde-base story, then I feel clearly screwed here.
But what is true is that the resources put into the Horde exceed those of the Alliance in many ways, the cinemas alone are worth millions of dollars each and the Horde has received five of those.
But that’s all I’d say, the Horde has definitely been awarded more money.
I don’t think that’s a good idea, the way the war ended the Alliance didn’t get anything out of this war except losses, there’s no progress here, on the contrary, it’s reached an all time low. And here I don’t see the Horde and the Alliance at the same low, here some people say “We’re in such a bad way,” but then I have to say who played both sides and always played a Horde main, and has done for many years, that the effort and the “loss” of the Horde is really negligible because we didn’t have any real loss.
Unless you’re talking about faction pride, but actually we’ve only gotten to the level of the Alliance in that respect, they hardly have any, not for years, faction pride has always been a Horde thing. When Blizzard shouted “for the Horde,” the hall would shake, when “for the Alliance” was shouted, it was generally quiet and less enthusiastic. And again, many people argue with the point of “pride”, really, what pride? The Horde is a disgrace and if you’re really honest about the whole situation, the defense just because it deserves to be completely wiped out, that’s not allowed to happen, it’s kind of strange, isn’t it?
I mean, am I really supposed to roll up from zero hour on what happened there because you’re all over the night elves?
But then we’ll still be sitting here tomorrow and I can assure you, it’s not as one-sided as you’ve tried to portray it here.
I think after an addon like BFA it would make a lot more sense to have the Horde working with Horde characters and the Alliance working with Alliance characters, cooperation between the factions shouldn’t happen for many years now, maybe at some point we’ ll find ourselves on neutral ground again.
Fun fact, the orcs reeked of demonic corruption, and Cenarius said they are demons, shooting at the night elf community now will not solve your problems with this narrativ. You’re going to lose this discussion of morality, you know that, so why do they enter instead of just admitting: yes, the Horde is bad, there’s no protection against it anyway. Because narrative has proven it again and again.
What I don’t understand, you’re asking for the annihilation of a people here, you’re comfortable with that, but if the Alliance does it too, isn’t that bad? isn’t that a bit hypocritical?
I mean, your big criticism of the addon is not that the night elves were wiped out, but because you were made a villain of the story, that’s your problem?
I’m curious what if the roles were reversed, would you be upset that the night elves were made villains?
I have a lot of things to complain about this addon, who is the villain of the story is really third rate for me.
The Horde made their mistakes, was monstrous, yes, you want to hear that, here it is, this compulsive defending of a situation that can’t be defended is the most annoying thing here in the whole forum.
Yes, damn it, say that once, that and that was crap! You can discuss much deeper and beyond if you don’t support the crap like faction pride, you can like a nation and still not participate in blizzard’s factional division in the community.
However, accusing other players of playing the horde won’t help you either, so don’t do it either.
All of you are here because the story touches you in some way, hurt feelings in the game and many more reasons why you are here, but to attack each other for no reason, even though there are often facts in the room that are discussed to death, doesn’t help!
The night elves were the only power to date that could deal with three major factions (Legion(Scourge) Horde, Alliance), just so much for shooting back blind here won’t help you. Also, it’s already clear in WC3 that if the Night Elves’ main army had come on the scene, there would never have been a Horde and Alliance, defeating the vanguard is not a victory.
Again, cut the crap and think outside the box, man, it’s not that hard.