Apparently they did just that in Darkshore.
We just never saw it.
the horde won’t be overrun, let me remind you they’ve just reconquered their territories, and are then busy with border patrols, something that consumes a lot of time and resources. So much so that they can no longer support the Alliance as fully as they did before. I wouldn’t say this is a simple overrun of the Horde. The Horde then tends to spread in central Kalimdor, but northern Kalimdor is something of a deadly zone for the Horde.
Which is why I’m dubious about how the battle actually ended. This war timeline is all sorts of wonky. Darkshore was an ongoing battle since 8.1 theoretically and ended after Sylvanas left.
So did the Night Elves actually rally and push the Horde out or did the Horde divert forces to the other ‘losing’ fronts and more or less just… leave?
Blizz’s refusal to show these things really does not benefit a war narrative.
If they can just reconquer everything and steamroll into Azshara, what is stopping them from walking through Orgrimmar’s rear gate and destroying the Horde?
Why would the Horde accept a hostile power at their literal back door?
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Because the Horde has bases all over the world, they have to spread their defenses much more widely to protect them halfway, whereas the night elves can bundle up, and besides, there was already in “a good war” that Tyrande and Malfurion together might be too much for the entire Horde, ergo, they’re not attacking further because they don’t have to, it’ll just cause unnecessary casualties on both sides, they’re showing the Horde that they’re there anyway, and that they won’t let it happen again, and this time. .any attempt to enter their territory can and will be fatal.
We have known since 8.1.5 that the Horde was losing on EVERY front. We’ve known that since Dazar’Alor, so the horde was even pushed out before sylvanas betrayed the horde.
Everyone has their own tastes, and I can see the aim of your scenario and would agree if we were in any other situation, but I think you’ve unfortunately managed to hit multiple night elf fan sore spots at once with this. I’ll try to elaborate on this POV.
It’s probably just the way this is phrased, but as it is, this sounds like you’re implying that both the night elves didn’t manage to retake Ashenvale - the only contested zone next to Darkshore where they could find Horde to attack - but that the Horde has managed to build non-military infrastructure there in the short time since the War of Thorns. Not a nice supposition for night elf fans.
The former setup (that this is going on in Ashenvale) robs these actions of the moral punch they really should have.
I don’t care if my neighbor is a great friendly tauren, if he’s sitting in -my- house, sipping -my- coffee out of the skull mug his buddies made out of my siblings that they killed on the way to steal that coffee, I won’t particularly care that he himself wasn’t involved in the invasion or murder - I’ll be angry just the same that he’s enjoying the spoils from them.
If you mean for the night elves to push through Ashenvale and the military there, and then start raiding civilian locations in the Barrens, that would be a different story. Though, unfortunately, after all the visible Horde citizens’ support for the War of Thorns and killing night elf civilians in their own home, I don’t think that many Alliance would see a mirror as an unspeakable action - after all, the Alliance was just told to forgive the Horde for that without even requiring an apology. (This mindset is a big part of why I think the War of Thorns was such a stupid escalation to put in the game.)
Again, this would be perfectly fine - even commendable - in most scenarios, but coming off the tail end of BfA… “Why should the Alliance be so quick to condemn their own when it took Horde leaders multiple patches to even make a peep about how maybe burning thousand of civilian elves alive might not be very nice? And then they just swept it under the rug, so purposefully killing civilians of the other faction apparently isn’t bad enough to require apologies by the Horde’s precedent.”
I don’t agree with the logic of that argument, but it’d become yet another case where the story is asking the Alliance to bottle up their feelings (which the story itself just whipped up to a frenzy) and set aside their emotional enjoyment of the game so that the H/A status quo can continue. It’s not a way to foster good player relationships.
Though that just means that it’s Elune getting villain-batted rather than Tyrande getting villain-batted. I don’t think either option is really great right now.
Overall, I think that the problem is that the Burning of Teldrassil so -stupidly- upped the stakes that a simpler scenario like this cannot compare with it.
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Most things indicate that the Alliance won the Darkshore Warfront. Nathanos is no longer at Darkshore (having headed back to Zandalar before the Battle of Dazar’alor, and then we see him for Nazjatar before he goes back to Orgrimmar, and he doesn’t show up in the Alliance version of the Darkshore Warfront, either). The Horde’s version of the warfront is set right after the Alliance intro questing since the Horde has to save Belmont, and since that’s always the case and generals don’t change like at Arathi it would seem this is a gameplay mechanic like repeating dungeons rather than battlegrounds (Belmont also doesn’t show up in the Alliance version of the Darkshore Warfront, so it’s not like the Alliance players recapture him every time, either).
And even outside the Darkshore Warfront we have support that the Alliance won:
And then Nathanos says the Alliance is winning on all fronts after Dazar’alor, which would have included Darkshore.
There is a Night Elf victory cinematic in the game, but, as you said, Blizzard has refused to make it accessible for some reason.
Citation needed. The victory ‘cutscene’ did not play until 8.3, after the war campaign ended.
Yet after all that Anduin claimed that he only had the forces for one attempt on Orgrimmar or else the Alliance would be tapped. Blizz’s use of numbers and victories never really add up and change on a whim.
You’re dodging the point. Why would they stop in your scenario? They could end the threat easily and permanently, thus preventing any future wars on the spot. In this scenario they would have destroyed the Goblin capital of Bilgewater Harbor as well to get there.
So again I ask, why would the Horde accept a hostile power that is literally waiting to kill any Orc or Goblin that walks out the back door to pick some Peacebloom?
It reads like a Kal’dorei power fantasy and just further shames the Horde who are at an all time low.
I don’t dispute that the Alliance won Darkshore, they clearly did. It makes total sense that the Alliance version comes after the Horde one. My issue comes from when the battle for Darkshore actually ended. How long did it take for the Army of the Black Moon to rally their forces to retake the area? How long did the Horde actually control it? That kind of stuff.
Additionally, there are still Horde forces throughout the zone even after the Alliance victory. How long did it take to push them out? Winning does not mean already won after all.
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The cutscene was actually never made available. The reports about someone accessing it unfortunately were either a bug or a false report.
The only statement we have to go off of was Steve Danuser’s answer an last year’s Blizzcon, but he did not specify the answers to your questions.
Though obviously your preference would be for the Night Elf victory to have been after 8.3, it could just as well happened back with the release of 8.1.
Anduin had not heard from the night elves and the black moon since Tyrande had left Stormwind, they didn’t respond to any of his letters.
and
Why did they stop before, when they already had the same power? Tyrande is stronger now than ever, and Malfurion is pissed as well.
And if the HORDE isn’t capable of taking a hit after what happened, I really wonder what the point of that is, I mean, the Horde has given the Alliance a lot of low blows and the Alliance still exists, but the Horde isn’t supposed to be capable? I call that pretty whiny.
I don’t think that matches the intention of the Night Warrior character customization that Steve Danuser explained in the Lore Q&A:
- Yes, the darkened eyes. And I think that speaks to the power of that ritual. This ancient ritual that Tyrande taps into - again, sorry, spoilers, but - Tyrande taps into that ritual, that calling upon- it’s not even calling upon, she’s demanding, she’s like, “Give me this power. You turned your back on us, as those ‘so-and-so’s’ took our home from us. Now you owe us. Give me this power.” And that so infused her that it could change those Elves. So we wanted to give players that opportunity, to say, “You know what, I’m part of that, too. I stand with Tyrande,” and show that off in their characters.
Regarding the Night Warrior.
Yes, Tyrande did intentionally invoke the power. However, we have a lot of the following dialogue saying the following…
And then later, several Night Elves comment…
And then there’s Shandris’ words to Tyrande.
Because of all of this, I don’t think that Tyrande’s status as the avatar of the Night Warrior is a 100% positive thing with no downsides that she’s going to hang on to forever. It’s power comes with a price and in time, it’s going to have to be given up. The Night Warrior, from the get go, has been portrayed as a double edged sword. It’s the nuclear option, and it is not without its downsides.
That does not address my point of the Night Warrior customization being meant to be so the player could support Tyrande, as the player can have the customization long after Tyrande does or doesn’t any more.
Even when Tyrande loses her status as Avatar of the Night Warrior in the story, there’s no reason why Night Elves character customization can’t continue to select black eyes.
That sounds like no downsides, which would conflict with your premise.
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Did it not? Even if it was a horrible cutscene, that kind of stuff should be mandatory for these kinds of narratives. Yet another ball dropped.
As for the victory being in 8.1 or 8.3, I think it really boils down to we have no stinking idea when anything happened this xpac. This timeline is whack.
Yet he still had Shandris and Night Elves present, just not the Army of the Black Moon.
And those don’t say “Won” or “lost”, they say, “Winning”, and “losing”. That means the battle has not ended, just that they’re making good progress.
Then this happens, implying the Alliance was dangerously low on available troops. That implies they either have not won those contested areas, or are so spent from winning them that they have no hope of closing the war on their own.
Because Teldrassil had not burned and Tyrande was not the Mortal Avatar of Elune’s Wrath. The stakes are much higher this time around. And despite his newfound rage, Malfurion is still the leader of the neutral Cenarian Circle and would not kick Hamuul and the Horde druids from Hyjal.
And no, the Horde is not in a position to take any hits after a second civil war and power struggle. And the Horde has taken hits, just generally not from the Alliance. It’s generally self-inflicted, but we take them nonetheless. Now should the Alliance have been allowed to give the Horde some bigger hits? Absolutely, it would have benefited both narratives, but here we are and the war is now over.
A more bearable alternative would be to have the Kal’dorei make their forceful push, successfully securing Ashenvale from the weary Horde stationed there. The Horde scrambles as they are routed again and again, but finally rally at the borders of the Barrens and Azshara, stopping the Army of the Black Moon and leading to a stalemate. Without Alliance support, it is clear that the Kal’dorei will not make it much further. Most of the Alliance leadership deny the help, citing the armistice and a desire for peace. The Horde meanwhile are far too taxed from the Fourth War to manage a counter-push and settle for fortifying the line, the new council deciding that losing Ashenvale was probably for the best.
You then have a scenario where both sides have a reason to zealously guard their borders from the other, giving opportunity for small skirmishes and small stories about how Tyrande or Thrall feel about the conflict as well as give rise to new minor characters for both sides.
Banning all Horde races from NE territory (all the Horde druids) and having the forest’s borders lined by Horde corpses on pikes would be a pretty cool thing to see.
Having all Horde ejected from Alliance organizations and territory would be a big help in remedying this situation.
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Only Tyrande is the avatar of the Night Warrior. Only she received the powers. Those are the powers that have a downside.
All the black eyes customization options shows is that some Night Elves personally witnessed the ritual, and/or fought under the Black Moon in Ashenvale. But the customization option doesn’t confer any actual powers in and of itself.
bro the horde doesnt even like the war
No more than any other customization, true.
Still, as I said, I don’t think the vilifying of the Night Warrior matches the intention of the customization, though.
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