The "eSports" toy situation

[Ithallaine-whisperwind]

I’m going to need a bigger toy dungeon

[Xalea-wyrmrest-accord (Xalea)]

This is just the beginning of the cash shop explosion. They will put as much as they can in there before making the game free-to-play, then it will really go into overdrive. They’re shifting their business model for WoW due to the massive sub loss. It’s no great surprise.

Don’t want to grind rep for allied races? Cash shop! Don’t want to level for heritage armor? Cash shop! Don’t want to wait for flight? Cash shop!

Sure, everything will still be doable in game… slowly… or you can buy the “convenience” of skipping over the time gates. Why do you think they put so much time-gating in the game to begin with?

[Hornyswoggle-khazgoroth (Hornyswoggle)]

Good thought, would be the right path to take. But I just cannot see blizzard doing it…

[Lumino-queldorei]

How long before Method or Limit or one of those turns around and sues Blizzard for profiting off of their logo and branding.

Or are you suggesting a portion of the money would go to those teams or what?

Either way I don’t like it.

[Talbyy-tichondrius (Talbyy)]

So, and I preface this by saying that I know I am treading on eggshells with this subject… eggshells coated in acid, on fire, and resting atop electrified spikes when it comes to discussing ANYTHING game shop and WoW, but hear me out.

We don’t know anything about the actual “toys” that they are planning to sell for this whole eSports thing (and if we do then I am certainly out of the loop as of posting this) and I can totally understand the outrage when looking at this from face value, I certainly do not want another Transmog Helm situation… but, what if those toys are something along the lines of what other big eSports games do?

What if its something like Team Pennants (Pennant’s being the little faction themed flags you see some people have gotten from the honor system that they wear on their back as a sort of banner) Something like $5-$10 for a team flag toy to show your support and representation of your favorite eSports team in game much like what LoL does with avatars, emotes, ect?

If you were, for example, a huge Method Orange fan you could buy a Pennant that had the Method Orange logo and the words “Arena 2019” or “MDI 2019” under the logo on the flag. Would that be so bad? Make it so the toys do not count towards in game achievements or anything like that so toy collectors would not feel like they NEED to buy them and that this exists solely for those who want to support the eSport scene and in return be able to represent their team in game with some cool visual swag?

Is something like that all that bad? I can totally get if they just do a generalized toy that does something much cooler than earnable in game toys, I could understand excessive outrage over that but would team pennants that don’t count toward achievement progress, that allow players to visually show their support for their favorite team, and support the WoW eSports scene be acceptable or too much?

Just curious.

There are 526 toys in the game, you get a mount at 300, and the final achievement ends at 400, If I’m not mistaken. There is no reason to be overly competitive about the achievement progress on your toy collection. If you spend money it should count. Cosmetics are not “pay to win” or “performance enhancing” or anything else that effects the game outside of the one buying them. The idea of someone buying a store pet and that it being the one that sends them over the 299 -> 300 mark is not one of game health, or reward integrity, it is just an ego arguement.

I just got back from PAX South where I went only to buy convention exclusive Funko Pops!. Collectors collect, I can’t imagine many of them [The ones I know] caring about something that is non essential, not of rare or exclusive quality, and otherwise does nothing for them or their collection.

I understand that everyone would love for it to be free and they’ll happily give me 1000 examples of something that was free but that isn’t the point of the toy.

Cosmetic items are an expression of a players personality. Be it a toy, transmog, the decision in which mount your going to ride, it is all for the most part identical in purpose in terms of allowing you to immerse yourself in the game.

I’m personally not going to wear a pennant on my character or a tabard, or anything like that, and bringing something like that into the shop would be a waste of time/effort. If I buy it then it would be to donate to the prize pool not to use it. You would have achieved the same amount of success as just saying “Give me $10 for the prize pool” only with a better public image.

On the topic of “What is acceptable”.

Valve has consistently managed to have some of the largest prize pools for their Dota2 tournaments in the history of Esports since the game released. They are at $25,532,177 currently for there 2018 invitational and only $1.6m was contributed by the company. Everything else was from the players and unlike WoW, the Battle Pass does give you exclusive benefits, and they are not minor benefits in anyway and not all are cosmetic.

League of Legends may be different now with a larger team but there was at one point where, in an official forum post about server stability, they pledged that any money they received from skins would have gone to better servers.

There are ways to get funding for projects, improvements, or investments to the future of the game from the people invested in playing it.

What the pet is doing for the AWC is no different from what any company has ever done in the past. There is no moral compass that is askew or being disrespected from the sale of this pet and if anything I’d say this was more in line with any moral value related to micro transactions I’ve seen in recent years.

Considering there’s been a terrible precedent set with micro-transactions, yes. It’s one thing to support a team, but there’s an issue when the in-game store is getting more support than the actual game itself. Regardless if they are e-sports items, both Blizz and these teams are getting paid, while the game becomes more and more lackluster when there’s so much potential that they’re not realizing. Not to mention there’s a lot of stuff in the game that needs to be fixed.
Overall, I see it as wasted resources.

The in game store is not getting more support than the game that is just a problem with how you are perceiving the release of information between things you do and don’t want. Exposure to a younger audience is not a waste of resources. Twitch Streamers / Youtubers / Content Creators can be an amazing thing for a game.

Since I mentioned PAX above and was recently introduced to what Critical Role was and how it has helped DnD extensively I’ll use that as a good example of how beneficial a source of third party entertainment can be to the communities surrounding a game.

[Tsavis-area-52 (Tsavis)]

Blizzard is using the toys to crowdfund their “esports.” They will want to sell them to as wide a range of people as possible, not just those that actually support a specific team, so I doubt they will just be a team pennant.
That being said I won’t be buying any pets, mounts, or toys ever again. One poster last night put things so well i am going to quote her in this thread.

@Chanye-cairne

My distraction about fallacies aside, here is my problem with the cash shop:
Yes, it is a way to make extra money for the company, but at what cost is it to us that we are simply not seeing or noticing? How many badly reskinned horses did Alliance gain access to this expansion? Then to see that the designers are capable of putting out cool mounts only if we fork over additional money?

If the top brass of 2007’s Blizzard had been the same current ones we have now from Blizzard/Activision, loved mounts like Ashes of Al’ar and Invincible would not be drops - they’d be in the store for $25.

That pretty much sums things up development wise. People are always saying the same developers that give us the mounts, and pets are not the same people that create content. No…but they are the same people who give the alliance reskinned horses and the horde whatever godawful ugly rep mounts that we have. I hate hyenas but that’s another story.

[Verheinen-kelthuzad (Verheinen)]

How many badly reskinned horses did Alliance gain access to this expansion? Then to see that the designers are capable of putting out cool mounts only if we fork over additional money?

That’s not a problem of resources or time. That’s the developers not caring about alliance.

[Tsavis-area-52 (Tsavis)]

Not again. You guys are making my head hurt, and i’m starting to not regret this.

[Verheinen-kelthuzad (Verheinen)]

Why would you regret burning and killing thousands of men women and children? You’re Horde, it’s what you do.

[Julissa-stormrage]

Not surprising that people with pathetic collections for some reason can’t see a single thing wrong with this. If you can’t even be bothered to buy some random collectible for 100g off a vendor or some other easy mount/pet then of course you won’t feel any need to buy stuff from the store. Try getting a collection somewhere in the same universe as 100% and I would respect your opinion a little more.

[Eret-hyjal (Eret)]

We all know blizzard is a small indie company with no money. If people want to support them… Good on them. I however have zero interest in that stuff and will not support it.

Anyone else not surprised a mvp is defending a multibillion dollar company for not providing an adequate prize pool for their “esports”

[Chanye-cairne]

That’s not a problem of resources or time. That’s the developers not caring about alliance

I’m forced to wonder if, perhaps, there is some measurement somewhere showing that maybe Alliance players do buy mounts and pets from the store more often then Horde (not that I’m saying I assume it’s true, I just speculate). In that case, the shafting of Alliance on mounts might be a subtle and nefarious plot to get you to spend a little extra in the shop, being their target audience.

Edit: noticing how conspiracy-theorist I sound right now, I just have grown to expect carefully plotted marketing things like this in today’s market.

[Verheinen-kelthuzad (Verheinen)]

I’m forced to wonder if, perhaps, there is some measurement somewhere showing that maybe Alliance players do buy mounts and pets from the store more often then Horde (not that I’m saying I assume it’s true, I just speculate). In that case, the shafting of Alliance on mounts might be a subtle and nefarious plot to get you to spend a little extra in the shop, being their target audience.

Edit: noticing how conspiracy-theorist I sound right now, I just have grown to expect carefully plotted marketing things like this in today’s market.

That’s not rrealy that far fetched, With how much data and consumer trends run things. I don’t think it’s happening, but I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if it were.
~fist bump for a fellow conspiracy theorist :)

[Primalmatter-stormrage (Primalmatter)]

Blizzard has no good will left with the community. As such this feels like nothing more then another hollow cash grab to try and make the train wreck that is BFA look more appealing to investors.

As for is it all that bad? It is more cash shop garbage in a premium pay to play mmo.

[Primalmatter-stormrage (Primalmatter)]

The in game store is not getting more support than the game that is just a problem with how you are perceiving the release of information between things you do and don’t want. Exposure to a younger audience is not a waste of resources. Twitch Streamers / Youtubers / Content Creators can be an amazing thing for a game.

So far in terms of quality of products the in game store is getting more support. There is a noticeable different in quality from cash shop items and reskined horses.

The problem with wow as a esport is that it just isn’t entertaining to watch even to people who are a part of a scene. High end pvp is almost scripted in how certain class comps have to fight one another and pve turns into watching people glitch out or cheese the game rather then any character skill making it look like a bug ridden mess.

People are tired. Blizzard is no longer offering a experience of a high enough quality that people are willing to look over the increasing micro transactions for.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

Is something like that all that bad? I can totally get if they just do a generalized toy that does something much cooler than earnable in game toys,

Have they said somewhere you can’t buy these with BNET balance? Because if not, then they’re just as earnable in game as anything else. Buy tokens with gold, turn those tokens into BNET balance.

Seriously, until they start selling items that give an actual in game advantage, “thus forcing people to spend money or gold on them to compete,” there is no problem here. You all don’t realize how lucky you are.

[Tiresias-moon-guard (Tiresias)]

Is something like that all that bad? I can totally get if they just do a generalized toy that does something much cooler than earnable in game toys, I could understand excessive outrage over that but would team pennants that don’t count toward achievement progress, that allow players to visually show their support for their favorite team, and support the WoW eSports scene be acceptable or too much?

Just curious.

I would be willing to bet that over half the problem is that you have to buy them from the store. If they set up in game vendors and in game events to build the base there would be less push back. Blizzard could easily make Method Orange npcs in game that hang around with dialog. Even going as far as to create an area like the Brawlers Guild or something for it.

If eSports takes off for WoW Blizzard stands to make a lot of money from merchandise. Look at it this way Alabama college football made 174.3 million dollars last year. With that kind of money on the line you would think Blizzard would do more than try to milk their dwindling player base with a cash shop grab.

[Primalmatter-stormrage (Primalmatter)]

Have they said somewhere you can’t buy these with BNET balance? Because if not, then they’re just as earnable in game as anything else. Buy tokens with gold, turn those tokens into BNET balance.

Seriously, until they start selling items that give an actual in game advantage, “thus forcing people to spend money or gold on them to compete,” there is no problem here. You all don’t realize how lucky you are.

Define lucky for me then? Having content cut out of a game where I pay for a expansion then pay a sub just so they can sell me the same thing a third time in a cash shop doesn’t feel lucky.

[Lillyann-llane (Lillyann)]

I’ve never gone into a game to watch others play it. It’s why I don’t watch streamers.

I want to be playing the game. I’m not here to watch. So obviously I know nothing about the MDI or any other esports other than the fact that they are a thing.

Unless there is an amazingly cool toy, I won’t get anything. I’m not going to support something I have zero interest in.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

Lucky in that so many other games have “cash shops,” that give REAL in game advantages. From powerful guns that take other’s months to unlock, to characters and abilities other’s can’t use.

They didn’t cut anything from the game. If they didn’t make these for the cash shop, they wouldn’t make them at all, but DESPITE that, you can STILL get them with gold.