The classic PvP system is immensely broken

I hit marshall rank back in vanilla. I 've achieved multi rank 1 arena teams during TBC and WoTLK. I’ve played a number of games with a PvP emphasis (Overwatch-hitting top 500 US, Apex, Starcraft, Counterstrike, etc.).

The sad reality is that WoW classic has one of the worst if not the worst PvP system I have played in a very long time.

Many PvPers that played back in Vanilla warned Blizzard that this mindless, unhealthy, afk/bot promoting PvP system needs to be scarpped. Blizzard, you didn’t listen. Why is that? The same scapegoat answer everytime: No changes.

The reality is we aren’t in 2004-2005, and even back then afking and botting plagued battlegrounds. You barely did anything back then, and even as a multi-billion dollar company now you still are doing nothing about it.

You recently showed that you are willing to impart some changes to Classic if things were going against the spirit of the game. (Alliance being able to premade AV while horde had to wait 1+ hr to get into a game). You applied 2 quick fixes and introduced party queue to AV.

However, you are still unwilling to do whats right in regards to this battleground. Balance the battleground. It has been shown numerous times that Alterac Valley is a terribly unbalanced map with the horde having numerous advantages (see run distances from caves to graveyards, unfair high ground advantage, easier map control, better placed towers, etc. etc.) yet you still are unwilling to rectify these mistakes from 2004 even though they are well documented.
Blizzard, you clearly demonstrated that you are willing to resolve some problems in Classic’s PvP system, and now its time to fix some more.
Rebalance the alterac valley map.

The second and only other battleground we have access to is Warsong, and although Warsong is a balanced battleground by design, it once again has exposed some grave issues with Classic’s PvP system.

Solo queuers and premades are queued against each other indiscriminately. In the modern era, this is utterly ridiculous, and astonishing that it’s been allowed to go on for so long. Once again the year is 2020 not 2004. You have learned how to develop competitive queueing systems (see Overwatch, Sarcraft, etc.). In the same way you modified the AV queue system, it is time to alter the Warsong and even AB (in the future) queue system. Solo queuers should be placed against other solo queuers, and premades should be placed against other premades. It is genuinely UNFUN to get constantly steam rolled while solo queueing, and it is time to change an archaic system.

Blizzard, It does not really benefit you as much with Classic being a successful game, but the PvP system is beyond horrible. You want to keep the cancerous ranking system the same? Fine. You want to let afkers and botters roam freely in AV fine. But for the integrity of the PvP system, please fine tune the alterac valley map, and in a similar fashion to what you did in AV, please introduce a new type of queuing system for the smaller battlegrounds (wsg and ab) where solo queuers go up against other solo queuers and premades can go up against one another.
PvP systems are designed around a 50/50 win rate. The win rate for horde AVs is almost 95% , and if you believe that is solely due to horde being better PvPers then you are truly out of touch. The same thing goes for the win rate of premades vs solo queuers in wsg, it’s insanely high and just flat out not fun.

Blizzard, the wsg fix is simple, and the AV fix is not that complicated (move spawn locations, change terrain slightly, open up the map more, etc.). People with some small amount of common sense knew that some changes had to be made in a 15 year old game. The problems are now compounding on each other, and Blizzard it is time for you to rescue the PvP system.

For those that may say, NO CHANGES MEANS NO CHANGES, you guys are so out of touch with reality there is no hope for you. If you care at all for the PvP system in Classic then you all should want changes that enhance the balance of this system. These changes are long over due.

58 Likes

You think you do but you don’t.

13 Likes

WoW Classic is NOT a PvP game!

It’s an immersive open-world MMO with an emphasis on raiding and dungeons, with a PvP minigame.

If you want a competitive, skill-based PvP game, Classic is not for you.

Just because you are playing the wrong game, doesn’t mean you should change it and ruin it for the rest of us who treat PvP as a side activity.

#ClassicPvPsucks
#NoChanges

22 Likes

If you dont want classic, dont play classic.

17 Likes

YES, PREACH BROTHER.

ALL MY VETERAN PVP FRIENDS WOULD COME BACK TUH-MORRAH IF THEY COULD RANK AT A SENSIBLE PACE.

#nochanges was a false flag for exploiters and NOTHING MORE.

14 Likes

I don’t think any of you get to tell me (someone who played from 04-Wotlk) whether I can play classic or not. Also, PvP is not a WoW minigame, it is a different game within the game. Just because you may not PvP does not mean PvP should be ruined for others.

14 Likes

I don’t care when you started playing. You are advocating for changes. I am advocating for the original game. And I can tell you, from this 120 level character, to go to retail. Because based on your statements, you belong there.

4 Likes

Stopped reading at “change the map”

It took them a month to remove a number from a dialog box, you think they can redesign a portion of a map? Lol…

1 Like

You made a statement earlier that the suggested changes would ruin the game for others, could you please clarify how any of the suggested changes would ruin anything for anybody?

Is your argument that horde losing some more AVs bad for the system? Or is that premaders would only face other premaders thus make it much worse for them? Isn’t the entire purpose of PvP the competition itself?
Also news flash, there are many changes in Classic from Vanilla. Classic is not and will never be Vanilla for many reasons. Your counter argument no longer makes sense.

1 Like

What exactly are you saying would be ruined here?

The fact that some of the best gear comes from PVP along with PVP being a huge part of certain servers denotes your actually wrong.

3 Likes

I want to distinguish between “I have no faith in Blizzard doing these changes” with “these changes need to be/should be done”. Just because you believe Blizzard will not act on these actions doesn’t mean that these changes should not take into effect.

In an effort to have a fruitful discussion you must toss out your lack of belief in Blizzard (which I don’t fault you at all). Nonetheless, it is time to raise awareness on this faulty system regardless of whether you believe Blizzard will do something or not.

1 Like

#nochanges, blizz hire gm’s to be logged in 24/7, and suspend afk honor farmers and bots like you did in vanilla.

10 Likes

Yeah I think the first positive step would be hiring more proficient GM’s in order to oversee behaviour and ban exploiting / botting. That would start to steer us vaguely in the right direction at least. I mean maybe they’ve got people monitoring potential bots or analyzing bot programs for future banwaves, but it doesn’t seem like enough to combat the problem.

Nothing about that would change if just the ranking system were better.

Long read. One of the few times I’ve read something all the way through.

Gotta say I disagree with so much of what you wrote but at this point I hope you get everything you asked for. Then two weeks after you get all the changes you wanted you will be back here with another post about why everything is so broken.

When ZG drops you will be back talking about how you got globalled.

When Naxx drops you will be back talking about how underwhelming pvp gear is.

It will be a never ending cycle of adjustments and changes.

For someone who plays so many games at such a high level you seemed to forget one very basically element when it comes to WoW pvp. It was never designed to be fair.

You want to fix bg’s? eliminate the ranking system all together let people buy pvp gear for honor points instead of rank.

Eliminate anyone and everyone who wants to pvp for the gear alone and literally just hand it to them and get them out of BG’s now because when we enter later phases, BWL, AQ, & Naxx people in pvp blues are going to struggle even harder in BG’s.

Next remove crossrealm bg’s.

Let servers police their own.

15 years later they still havent gotten pvp right in retail, what makes you think this time will be any different?

3 Likes

First of all, forcing premades to fight premades would significantly increase the queue times for rankers, and make their honor gains much lower. Wpvp might become viable again, and wpvp for ranking RUINS the non-ranker experience.

Second, “the slippery slope” is not a fallacy. It has been proven to be real time and time again, especially in the case of Blizzard. Do I want the horde cave to be pushed back? As an alliance player, yes. Of course I do. Do you think I like being cave camped every game? But…

Do I want WoTF to be nerfed? Yes.
Do I want elite lvl 55 guards in Menethil boats? Yes.
Do I want more alliance FPs? Yes.
Do I want LFG? Yes
Do I want mage table? Yes


Do I want pet battles? Yes
Do I want flying? Yes

But do I want BFA? No.

And what is BFA? The listed changes implemented.

Changes are a can of worms. When Blizzard caves in, players smell blood and demand more. OP is the perfect example:

If their changes get implemented, someone will use the same argument and ask for more. it will never end. The dam has broken. That’s why in my opinion letting 5-man parties to queue for AV was unacceptable and has only lead to their post.

We need to stop this. Now.

6 Likes

At the very least they could start a teir system. If you get flagged as AFK within 10 seconds of it you should get the debuff. 1 minute after that without being in combat you get removed from game. Having the deserter debuff stack up based on a 24 hour CD. IE 15, 30, 1hr, 2hr, 4hr. And so on.

1 Like

No

(10chars)

1 Like

All blizz needs to do is moderate the game actively, not in hotfixes that make things worse. No changes is the way to go, but we need changes no changes from blizz not the code.

DIAF RETAIL SCUM!