Very few people choose the right way, and Anduin may be hiding from more than just the people who would help him… He may be hiding from the Light as well.
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There wasn’t really arguing about it. Mostly just me pointing out that our reaction to Anduin supposedly being a “mopey sadsack” when they’re trying to tell a story about trauma shows a lot about how we view traumatized men in general.
It’s Men’s Mental Health Awareness month. Let’s just refrain from using terms like “mopey sadsack” even if he is a fictional character, alright? It’s not about hurting poor Anduin’s feelings. He’s not real. It’s about not shaming traumatized men by proxy.
I’m not even saying anyone needs to like the story, or Anduin because it’s about trauma. I don’t like the story because his trauma stems from Shadowlands stuff, which I think is all dumb. But I’m not about to go and call Anduin a sissy-boy for displaying emotions other than anger.
Anyway, you might just have to read the story if you’re interested in what’s in it.
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No. I think it’s clear that a majority of WoW fans don’t want these types of themes. It’s bizarre how this franchise has turned into some emotion fest where people have to walk on eggshells, both in its stories and playerbase. Where this fragility comes from is beyond me. If people can’t handle mean words, or even disagreement, they need to get off the internet.
Is that clear?
What this is about is about not belittling guys who are going through trauma. Blizzard is telling a story about trauma so when you say he is being a mopey sadsack, it’s really not difficult to see how someone could internalize that.
It’s one thing to say “I don’t like that narrative because it’s a little too intimate from what I want in my game” and saying that expressing emotions in any way other than anger is bad. Because that is what this is about.
I was able to express my distaste for the storyline without walking on eggshells or belittling anyone by proxy. It wasn’t difficult to do.
No one is not handling mean words or disagreement. It’s not really about those things. It’s about not belittling such struggles.
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Blizzard is running up against a very old stigma with mental health, tbh. We are a lot better at handling it than when we just used to lock people up in an attic or an asylum to rot, but it is still a taboo topic in larger American society. So, people get really weird when they are forced to engage with it via story.
Mix that with the idea men admitting feelings is a sign of weakness and general gamer culture… and it is only going to end poorly.
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Unfortunately so. I think they should tackle stories like this, though. I think there is room for all kinds of stories in WoW.
The unfortunate bit is that this is tied to Shadowlands lore. And I just really do not like that. Would be a lot nicer if this was attached to everything else that had gone on in his life, rather than just domination magic. I think there is definitely criticisms to be made of the story and how it is presented. But the trauma part isn’t it.
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A lot of people don’t care for Anduin because he’s an obvious dev pet character (I mean, Golden outright admitted it), and reintroducing him back into the limelight like this just kind of falls flat if you’re one of them because it’s clear they’re trying to build up interest as him being a major face of the expansion rather than doing an actual deep look at PSTD. I could be wrong but I have the nagging feeling his PSTD is going to magically be mostly fixed by the time we find him in game.
Its kind of like Tyrande and Malfurion reuniting at the very end of DF. Me not caring for the cutscene isn’t because I’m against emotional reunions or love in WoW. I just find Tyrande horrifically overexposed and do not like her.
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Someone getting hurt feelings over a fictional character getting called a mopey sadsack is weird and is a silly premise in itself.
The problem is that we’ve been getting struck over the head with characters going through these types of emotions for too long, it’s annoying and boring. Saurfang is SAD, Jaina is SAD, Anduin is SAD, Thrall is SAD. The storyline since BFA, except for a detour in DF, has been a depression arc, that’s 4+ years of dealing with mopey characters. It’s like getting fed the same food over and over, after awhile it stops being tasty.
Here’s a character where this storyline worked: Tyrathen Khort in Shadows Of The Horde. He felt guilt about not saving his squad mates and had doubts about being a good husband and father. Throughout the story he was able to work through these issues, but it wasn’t just about that, there were other things he did too. When the story finished, so did those problems. Now we’re dealing with storylines about sad people going on for years and when that’s done someone else gets handed the sad ball.
But another thing is that his issues were relatable. Being unable to prevent a war is not relatable. Being unable to regain elemental powers is not relatable. Being unable to get over being controlled by the devil is not relatable. When people ask if Anduin’s trauma is unearned, it’s because they can’t put themselves into his position, because it is not a relatable circumstance and people have no reason to put themselves into his shoes.
I agree, the problem is that this type of story has oversaturated WoW’s narrative.
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If Anduin was directly depressed over his terrible leadership leading up to BFA and role in pouring gas on the faction dumpsterfire and making Sylvanas job easier, I think I’d be more interested. Or hell, maybe Tyrande & co being furious at him for unilaterally ending the war stuck with him.
But basically only really being upset about the Arthas possession feels like a copout because he can’t possibly be blamed for them. Nor can you blame other characters the lead devs really want you to like. Its something that yes, would be very damaging to go through, but isn’t all that rare in-universe, sadly.
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Nah he is definitely still messed up in game as well. He makes a lot of commentary about how everything is kind of pointless and refuses to even try to use the light. There are moments where he is basically just baggage weighing everyone down, and he knows it. And hates it.
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I’m not sure if his terrible leadership was an intentional story plot or the writers just aren’t good at writing military stories and so it resulted in a story where Anduin looks like an incompetent moron.
Those writers are gone now either way and who knows what the new writers want to do with it.
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You will never ever make everyone happy. The gamergaters will NEVER be happy until they’ve driven every woman out of gaming save for those who consent to be their dolls. And Blizzard isn’t so suicidally stupid to cater to them other than providing new raid material.
The gamer market is diversifying. Hasbro knows this and they like money. So as long as it sells, they’re going to put out that material.
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Part of the problem is that not even the writers are clear on what happened to Anduin. It is implied that Anduin hurt or killed people, but it is never shown or really described in detail. This is not even a situation of, “show, don’t tell”, because Blizzard has not even told us what happened. We are left to our own imaginations.
The TWW quests also demonstrate that the writers are not on the same page. For example the peptalk Faerin gives to Anduin after reclaiming the watchtower borders on ridiculousness - none of her failures (of which none of given btw) involved chopping up people for space satan and bringing about the end of the universe. These guys are talking about two different things, and yet, she is giving a “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” speech? I know it is too late to change, but god damn.
I don’t even think the issue has to revolve around guilt over his actions while possessed. It could also be the fact that a sheltered person being forcefully exposed to gore and violence non-stop, which could screw up anyone.
My issue isn’t that he shouldn’t be distressed by what the Jailer forced him to do, its more that its kind of a copout if that’s the only thing he’s depressed about. Especially if the depression ends with him just going “oh yeah that’s not me, lmao” and realizing he’s not a bloodthirsty jerk deep down.
I think he would be better served as a character if part of his depression was the realization that when the world really needed him to be the peacemaker to avert war, he let grief and passivity control his actions and either poured gas on the embers of war himself or let Genn/Calia/Shaw push him around and make decisions he would normally never be okay with.
I’m not saying to give Anduin a “its his fault for BFA” arc by any means, he owns but a tiny sliver of that particular pie chart of blame, but I think it’d be better if there actually was a flaw he had to come to terms with and accepting rather than the whole exercise being about him being a 100% saintly goodboy who is just too hard on himself
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I think the short story accomplishes just that: there is the flashback on the bodies on the pier during BFA; the trances where he hacks things apart (the log and later the bandits). These instances lay the groundwork for more nuance, but sadly none of this is present in the beta. To my recollection, the most description we receive in the beta is “I was controlled by evil”, which I have already harped on in multiple places (I don’t want to sound like a broken record).
It’s frustrating, and Faerin inadvertently makes it even worse. The problems with Faerin as a character is a thread topic unto itself. The writers switch between wise veteran soldier/philosopher providing guidance and starry-eyed recruit at the drop of the hat. As though she is 75 years old and coming of age in a military commune at the same time. This in turn makes the Anduin story arc more awkward, because he is both supposed to be inspired by her relentless spirit/philosophy and commiserate with her struggle. Here, I went off topic, again.
Just like… a man. 
What? Did you not fight Anduin during Shadowlands? The assumption is he likely did kill some of those who did the Sepulcher raid. Anyway, 2 weeks or so we get Chronicles 4. Lets see what that says.
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Didn’t the Anduin fight go through a massive number of nerfs? He was very good at killing raids.
He did kill several Nightfae when the Jailer used him to attack Ardenweald for their sigil, which he does have nightmares about in the short story. It wasn’t focused on, but in the cutscene in which he takes the sigil, he’s surrounded by bodies, and no other Maw forces are present with him.
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I did the raid, but I think there are two issues with relying on Sepulcher for context:(i) unless a player ran the raid and/or played that far into SL, then returning players wouldn’t have that context; and (ii) we still haven’t seen it through the eyes of the character, and so we are left to fill in some gaps. Hence, even a short flashback quest where you control Anduin and kill “players” in Sepulcher would go a long way.
I remember that too, and I think it would be great if we saw the assaults from his eyes in a flashback quest. That would bring returning players back up to speed and reinforce the story arc.
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No! Anduin’s only fault can be not being strong enough! We can’t have him be morally fallible!
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