They’re not though, one is the player’s fault. The other is the game’s fault.
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So by “bad group” you mean “bad comp” rather than “group of bad players”?
I actually think that a queue system could end up being a positive in this regard. If groups are failing because randomly composed groups are failing dungeons because of a lack of curse dispels (for example), then maybe Blizzard would stop designing dungeons with those kind of comp requirements.
Well it barely matters what the actual reason is, all that matters is what gets blamed.
The game currently has no part in the process at all, but as soon as it does it becomes a scapegoat.
There’s a reason every single game with a matchmaking system that currently exists is PvP, not PvE.
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Comp matters in PvP too, and the matchmaking system they instituted in PvP has proven to be very popular.
Obviously the quality of the group you would end up with in a matchmaking M+ group would be lower than 1 where you chose the 4 applicants with the highest score. But that doesn’t matter to a lot of people. They just want to play the game.
PvP has curated success rates though. The average success of every PvP match is 50%.
Whenever WoW has PvE queues the only way to guarantee any rate of success at all is to guarantee near 100% success, it’s why all queued content is effectively trivial and has been for over a decade.
Tanks and healers already can “play the game” though, and as you say would get much higher quality groups. Why would they engage with a system that by design just contains the DPS who can’t get into premades?
Beyond the design philosophy issues there’s technical ones. Once the group is formed does the timer just start? Is there time to discuss route? What if someone inspects the group they’ve been assigned and doesn’t like it and just leaves before you start?
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The same reason they use the heroic queue system instead of walking into a heroic. Convenience, bribes, etc.
It’s almost certain they’d have to add some sort of extra incentive for tanks and healers to queue, like Augment runes etc. It’s not an insurmountable problem.
Beyond the design philosophy issues there’s technical ones. Once the group is formed does the timer just start? Is there time to discuss route?
I’d assume they’d just dump you in front of the keystone plug.
What if someone inspects the group they’ve been assigned and doesn’t like it and just leaves before you start?
Then they get deserter debuff.
The issues you bring up have been worked out long ago in the original dungeon finder which has been iterated on for 16 years. You sound like some of the classic Andy’s making the same argument against dungeon finder in WOTLK classic.
The only difference with a M+ dungeon finder is that you’d just need a minimum rating to queue each new level of dungeon.
I’d say the largest difference is that m+ is designed with the expectation that failure is a likely and acceptable outcome, while random dungeon finder is not.
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Why? Keep the difficulty the same. Offer better rewards for timing keys: Higher ilvl (like anyone actually gets gear from doing mythics lol) and more currency. The difficulty is fine as it is. You and everyone with this mindset are so stuck on WoW having to be competitive in every aspect that you can’t see the forest for the trees. You’re fish that can’t comprehend the water you’re swimming in.
If you don’t run M+ dungeons, you can’t even get into Mythic raids, or even Heroic raids.
if you join a raid team that requires you to do m+ that is a personal choice. like i said no one is forcing you to play m+ you are doing it for your own wants and needs. i also have never been in an aotc guild that requires a m+ quota lmao that would be pathetic.
He’s probably talking about pugs and he’s absolutely right, if you’re only doing normal raid and you’re in full champion gear, there’s no way you’re getting invited to any heroic pug.
then start your own pug raid. ive seen severely under geared pug raid leaders get carried to aotc lol.
once again start your own. that is the answer every time. i have 4 characters that i run and only two guild raids. if i want to raid on the others i either heal/tank or make my own raid.