I mean, I’ll admit it’s been extremely frustrating to see how thoroughly Thrall was gutted while Alliance-side characters run free with seemingly unrestricted levels of power.
10 Likes
It’s fine. Post at your leisure. It isn’t like you’re being paid to do it and it takes a lot more effort than you’d think to make large, well-thought out and multi-paragraph long responses to multiple users. It can actually get overwhelming pretty quickly.
2 Likes
The power level is insanely in favor of the alliance is not even funny.
like sure, i enjoy seeing alliance characters like jaina showing what she can do as one of the strongest mages on azeroth if not the strongest
a belt that she has been holding since… wc3 probably, even there she was considered a prodigy by the legendary antonidas.
But i do agree that the lack of a horde rival is… not ideal.
i think that kaelthas had all what it was needed to be at the same level as her.
but sadly for all of us he was randomly villain batted and killed and is interesting because the villain bat of the horde has been causing so many character deaths that could fix some of these problems.
instead, not only alliance characters become stronger for one reason or another (jaina got 2 power ups on pandaria)
they also are adding even more to our ranks. in legion it was turaylon and alleria and in bfa, Maiev.
Now, what would have happened in the Dazar’alor raid alleria was coming with us?
would horde players would be dead now?
so now is our problem because the alliance is so strong that they can’t go all out and have to fight with their hands tied.
not fun for anyone.
i don’t think that it would be fair either that they just start killing or nerfing ally characters left and right and left them in a pathetic state.
instead, i think that the best solution is not only stop villain batting the horde and killing their characters, but also, developing them.
but at the same time, is too late now, the war is over, i don’t want another faction war. and knowing blizz, they would only will ruin everything for everyone a little more if there is anyone left that even cares.
Don’t worry, I plan on sneaking him out of the Shadowlands under my…shirt…
Hm. I think I need to rethink my plan.
3 Likes
we are counting on you!
#bringbackael
#kaeldidnothingwrong
You must be kidding.
2 Likes
Hah! If that’s the case and we’re still stomping either fighting them to a draw or, more realistically, kicking the ever loving hell out of them, then I’d wonder how screwed they’d be if it wasn’t. Would the Alliance even exist anymore?
Heh, come to think of it I reeeeeally doubt it, that and their ability to say “they started it!” (proper Horde reply being “And?”) are their only redeeming features in their ceaseless cavalcade of utter failure.
Oh, it’s not that. I’ve done this kind of thing before. It’s just the combination of this being a hot-button topic and me stopping to actually play the game and other things, I want to avoid situations where people end up with the whole “Ha! They didn’t respond in two hours, therefore they don’t have the guts to yadda yadda yadda”. 'sides, it’s important to engage people who make a good faith effort to b heard; especially when the recurring sentiment is that people aren’t being heard.
Now, having said that, let’s boogie.
Troll Wars
So…I think what’s happening here? I think this is boiling down to a difference in definition of what constitutes a ‘genocide’. I suppose I can clarify in my case, the main criteria I’m using is the involvement of civilians. Draenei civilians were killed. Blood elf civilians were killed. Night elf civilians were killed. The Amani army just lost.
Specifically, in those pictures linked? One of them was a picture of burning the home city of what was almost entirely a civilian population. The other was one member of an army casting what looked like a spell on another army, in (what I believe is based on rereading the synopsis) the Alterac Mountains.
If you want to make the argument that the human and elven forces vicious, sure. They did cut down the Amani as they were fleeing. But this was Amani soldiers, not Amani civilians. And this was during war. Which, yes, the Amani did start.
I actually went back and reread on the Troll Wars. From what I understand (and again, if I’m saying something inaccurate, please let me know, because this is off memory and rereading the articles), this is the sequence of events.
- High elves land in the Eastern Kingdoms
- High elves attacked by Amani trolls
- High elves fight off trolls, settled in land.
- Something in land started driving high elves crazy, so they moved further north
- The area they settled was on top of an ancient troll city that was still sacred to the trolls
- Trolls attacked elves in increasing numbers. High elves used powerful magic to drive trolls off.
- 4000 years pass
- Trolls retaliate en masse
- High elves reach out to humans, teach them magic, team up, rout Amani army
Is that about it? The reason I bring this up is that part about 4,000 years passing. I think that starts to add some additional context to “their land” thing. It doesn’t invalidate the claim, but it does add some depth to it.
Anyway, I stand by what I said. An army being routed is not the same as a people nearly being wiped out. And the thing about butchering the fleeing Amani army? I was…I mean, oddly enough, I had thought that was a bit much, until I reread that bit about having lived for 4,000 years in relative peace. In that vein, it’s still a bit much, but given the fact that the last time that elves let the trolls escape, they came back in much greater numbers, I have to take that into consideration.
Alliance & Horde Characters
First of all, yes, I completely blanked on Jaina in that raid. (Let me not lie: The idea that she casts Ice Block as soon as raids cast any haste mechanic still makes me giggle. I like to imagine the looks on the first people who found that out. "All right guys, burn time. Big cooldowns. Pop Hero/Lust/Time Warp and let’s…I…what? Is she? What? What? ) Thank you on that.
Again, this is another case where I should have clarified what I meant. Malfurion was keeping either Darkshore or Kalimdor from being flung into the sea during Cataclysm, yes. Thrall was also keeping the Maelstrom from…something, I don’t really remember. These are absolutely displays of power.
And Jaina, hopped up on magic, was definitely using her powers to neutralize the powers that Sylvanas was using.
I’m going to take a moment right now to stop the above just to say something right now, openly, and for the record. I am sick of Blight. Sure, it’s a fine concept from back during Wrath of the Lich King, but…it’s just silly, now. It’s this bollocks mechanic that they seem to use instead of actually anything creative or…good. Need some quick reason? Blight. Why can’t we go here? Blight. How can she stand up against the assembled forces of whatever? Blight. Blight, Blight, Blight. Aside from the fact that it’s “played out”, as the hip kids say, it doesn’t make sense that no one’s developed some kind of counter agent to it. It’s just this immovable sword of Damocles that doesn’t even add any tension. It’s dumb, at this point.
Back to the point at hand, I wouldn’t consider teleporting bombs on to ships a display of godlike power. And actually, thinking back to the Siege of Orgrimmar, there have been plenty of cases where one person (Nazgrim, the Dark Shaman, technically, and so forth) were able to hold up a raid. And I don’t think anyone would consider them god-tier?
But, no, I hear you. I get your point. The ship, the Malfurion thing…unbelievably powerful creatures. That aren’t used particularly effectively. This is one of the things I agree with Jellex about, as she mentioned here:
I think the reason that this resonates so much is that the idea of story progress and horrors of war seem to involve inflicting havoc on Alliance territories. Territories that are frequently the homes of these god-tier characters.
Horrors of War: Theramore mana-bombed!
Horrors of War: Teldrassil burned!
And then, to add on what Jellex said? It’s not even the fact that Jaina, Malfurion & Tyrande and every other powerful night elf, et al have their characters sidelined. It’s that any attempt they have at any kind of retaliation is viewed somehow as erratic. People are already talking about “Tyrande is consumed by vengeance and going evil”, and it’s…did you see what happened to her like last week? That wasn’t 10,000 years ago.
Actually, come to think of it, that’s also a potential problem for the Horde, too. They’re going to have to keep making Horde characters feel guilty, because given what they’ve written, there is a zero chance that the Horde would actually survive an Alliance path of eradication. They can’t have the Alliance forces even really do anything, because it just looks like they’re being bullies.
I mentioned before about Velen having the Vindicaar call in orbital strikes. I have heard Horde and Alliance players wonder about that. Especially given the bad blood between the orcs and draenei. And seriously, the Lightforged would be down for it. But it doesn’t happen. I mentioned Alleria sending people to the Void, and someone mentioned that they’ve never seen her doing it before. Which is kind of the point. Why the hell not? Umbric did, with one of the most darkly amusing descriptions I’ve ever read. [“Take this orb. It will create a void portal above the target and pull them… somewhere else.”] Alleria is a lot better with the Void than he is, but she doesn’t? Fine. Why not just open up void portals and send massive troops to locations to key locations?
Because as Jellex pointed out, it would make Horde players feel helpless. How do you fight the sky? How do you fight reality? You don’t. So, because of this, they don’t have the Alliance use them. Which just makes the Alliance feel stupid, because they keep losing territory and ground and just ignore the massive arsenal at their disposal. I don’t want to call it lazy writing, but it’s thoughtless writing. I remember someone in another thread said even if they did something as minor as saying the Vindicaar couldn’t zero in on a location because Oculeth was screwing with their readings via telemancy, that would be sufficient. (And funny. I miss that guy.)
I think it’s important for me to take a moment, here, to directly address Horde players (rather, people who predominantly play as Horde characters, and are immersed in the narrative). I am in no way trying to call you out. I am not callling you evil, or incompetent, or anything like that. My issue is with the narrative that Blizzard is creating. Literally one of the first things I said about this situation is that it’s being handled clumsily. It’s forcing you to keep swinging at me, and it’s forcing me to move in the path of your fist, while forgetting how mine work. Until some referee comes in and then just calls the fight in my favor.
It’s unsatisfying. For everyone. It feels like what we’re doing doesn’t matter. Which is not a great feel for an RPG.
I’m sorry if I haven’t gotten to everyone. But this is already lengthy, and I should end it soon. But I want to say a few last things.
My view, yes and no. If it was anyone but Thrall, I’d feel like that. But I was so done with him. It got to the point where it was like “Sigh Let me guess. Thrall’s going to…right.”
But I agree with your sentiment. Just…Thrall.
That would be absolutely amazing, and a crucial counter to Jaina’s unstoppable ice powers. “You’re powered by the artifacts of titans and a focusing iris? I’m powered by the blood of the worldsoul and a naaru. I created most of the spells you’re using. Impress me, child.”
Seriously, stop sleeping on the highly arrogant, unbelievably powerful blood elves.
Other candidates include Baine (I’d like him to be empowered by his ancestors), and for the love of God, I can’t think of anymore because Blizzard wont’ stop getting rid of Horde characters.
I think…I would like to see things like strong trolls. Maybe not the Amani, because of…the thing, but…I don’t know. Drakkari? No, that wouldn’t work, because of the Forsaken, but…I don’t know. Farakki, maybe? Or an Amani that survived the Troll & Aqir war?
I’m not entirely sure what this means. I don’t mean your usage. I mean I’m not entirely familiar with the term, I think, in this context. But I still maintain that Anduin wanting to maintain peace is entirely in character. It was the same with Thrall wanting to just have peace and freedom. That would be their ideals. Being exposed to war doesn’t make you want more war. As far as Anudin’s beliefs, though, he has both literally always been like that, and is a devout follower of the Light.
I disagree with your stance that people have to be a “bad guy” to stand against him, though. It’s entirely possible for two people to have as their goal peace, and still come into conflict with each other. Literal wars have been fought because of that.
Also, it’s not…people aren’t just lockstep following him because he’s the king. He is also known for wisdom. Unless Chi-Ji was lying about that? Or the Pandaren who are devotees of Chi-Ji? If you’ve ever been in the presence of someone who has a genuine sense of peace about them, they almost project an aura of serenity and calm. People do tend to listen to these people.
I daresay it’s more than that. And even then, writers don’t always have carte blanche to write what they want. Sometimes, they get the message “Okay, we’re going to do X and Y, now write a way for it to happen”.
They absolutely need to expand on her. I want to see her doing more things. In case I haven’t been clear about this: I want to see more high powered Horde characters. Thalyrssa should be doing more. Valtrois should be doing more. The mag’har should be doing more.
I’m not going to lie. Of all the people who could potentially come back?
I would really like to see Kael’thas come back. The old one. The calculating one. The one that people took seriously, before he became “just a setback”.
Whew. That was a quite a bit, yeah? Breathing, now.
5 Likes
It’s funny how that works. It’s because the Amani are inherently dehumanized. They don’t get to ever even have “civilians”, they’re depicted as all monsters. So of course no where in the lore is it gonna say humans and elves butchered innocent civilians, because that would actually cause the losing side of the conflict to be humanized, which is not allowed. But I mean, if we leave the lore logic of “this race is inherently a monster race that deserves everything they get”, and see that a sentient people lost almost all of their land, up to the point of their capital finally being sacked and looted in TBC, it is absurd to think none of their “civilians” were ever harmed by this.
- Orcs land in Kalimdor.
- Orcs attacked by Night Elves.
- Orcs fight off Night Elves, settled land.
- Night Elves join the faction that is the Orcs mortal enemies.
- Orcs finally destroy Night Elf capital.
See how one can do that for the other situation?
14 Likes
Oh they can.
Just look at BFA, the Alliance went from “too many soldiers” that the Horde’s entire army at Lordaeron was helpless to stop to the combined Alliance forces and Horde rebels was enough for one single assault on Orgrimmar.
A city by the way Saurfang described as easily surrounded and captured.
1 Like
It’s very simple - plan to systematic extermination of nation/specie ethnic group. Which is what happened with Amani.
Amani didn’t attack helves right away, they attacked them when helves pressed into troll territories, and they did that because they wanted to settle in place where the laylines collided so they could crate new fount of power.
Helves had other places to settle on.
Helves and humans did hunted for years trolls down, took more and more of their territories. All you have to look at is maps and the aftermath of Troll Wars.
That is genocide in all it’s meaning.
Weather it was successful in eradicated them entierly or not.
4 Likes
So…if there aren’t any references in the lore to say that civilians were butchered, have we established that civilians were butchered?
Because if we haven’t, then…?
No, I agree with the first few parts of that. The night elf response was a bit disproportionate.
I guess the difference here is that whole 4,000 year thing. This comparison falls apart because the night elves had actually had relationships and such with the orcs. They fought alongside the orcs to keep the world from being destroyed, with Thrall’s forces standing next to Tyrande’s.
That’s a bit different than “gone for 4,000 years”.
Also, the whole “mortal enemies” thing kind of falls apart a bit more, if you examine it. Humans and orcs had been at odds, sure. But that’s largely because of that whole “destroy the whole world” thing the orcs had been doing for…both instances they came through the portal. Also, humans were fighting alongside orcs at Hyjal, too. And then against the Scourge, and then when the world was being broken, and all of that.
They were definitely enemies, but there’s some context there.
Also, that last bit. Two things about that. First, this would be an act of aggression by the orcs. They started the war. They’re not defending anything, whereas with the high elves, they were defending themselves against an assault. Second, this wasn’t “orcs” doing this. This was Sylvanas. There was kind of a big outcry against this, yes? As in they’re not the same?
I get that you think troll losses have been diminished, or downplayed. To an extent, I agree. But in the case of trolls, especially the Amani? They’re known for being warlike. Zul’jin I think said “I spit on your Horde”, and they were going violent and nuts? Trying to remember the original Zul’Aman cinematic.
Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is that the claim “we are being consistently attacked and it’s being belittled” is a tenuous one if you are also frequently trying to fight other people.
Again, this is going off of my memory and a quick read on the subject, but did the trolls not attack the high elves on sight, even when they were in Tirisfal? Yes, the attacks increased in ferocity and number as they moved north, but weren’t the trolls pretty quick to attack them?
Anyway, even the description you gave of genocide doesn’t mesh with what happened. The high elves didn’t like the Amani, but they were willing to just ignore them.
I say that because they did for 4,000 years.
The Amani then launched a massive attack against Quel’thalas. The armies they brought were routed, and the empire was shattered, largely because the Amani didn’t really have an army. But I don’t recall reading anything about, for example, high elves going out of their way to locate Amani homes and kill unarmed civilians, or anything like that.
If this happened, and it was continuous and widespread, then, yes. That would definitely be one thing. But the Amani were known for things like throwing almost their entire population at a superior foe, overwhelming them with numbers. They did that during the Aqir-Troll war, with the C’thrax. It didn’t work, this time.
Ironically, this is one of the purposes of an armistice. If the high elves and humans had signed an armistice with the Amani, then that could have prevented a lot of loss on both sides. It’s a cessation of fighting. There wouldn’t be situations where the the Amani are still attacking blood (née high) elf settlements.
This is also, by the way, a consequence of thoughtless writing. This consistent urge to make trolls appear as cannon-fodder enemies, to the point where I think there’s an achievement called “Zul’Again”. At the very least, with Zandalar, they made an effort to make trolls not just an instance.
No, Evles were wandering for years in I assume southern Tirisfal lands not bothered at all, but they were not content with this land. So they decided to press into troll territories being well aware that these territories are occupied.
And trolls immediately attacked them because these are the same elves that used to war with them before and already took a big chunk of their lands before.
With elves you can’t really use the explanation “it’s different kind of elves, you can’t blame younger generation for faults of older ones” because they’re the exact same generation that was totally on board with wiping the world of “lesser creatures” until it backfired on them.
But regardless if trolls were right or wrong, they were still genocided. As I previously shown a picture of them being literally “Teldrassiled”, and as was shown on map how their empire was desintegraded and split between elves and humans. AND with both elves and humans using to this day “troll hunter” units to systematically cull their numbers.
Let’s reverse this scenario for humans.
Imagine if orcs successfully break almost everything they ever had, forced to hide in the rim of their remaining territories, and then “just in case” systematically raid them for sport to kill them so they won’t ever grow in dangerous enough numbers.
As if they were some rabid animals and not a nation with heritage, pride and culture.
17 Likes
i don’t take or accept anything about kael in BC as canon because it was dumb.
so yeah, i don’t care if they bring him back, he deserves redemption and we can pretend like BC never happened.
But we can’t pretend it didn’t happen. just like you can’t pretend BfA didn’t happen. What was done was done. Kael summoned Burning Legion to Azeroth Azshara Style.
3 Likes
One of the reasons I don’t think those two images are equivalent is that you’re using one to describe the other. Specifically, you’re using Teldrassil as something synonymous with untold devastation and wholescale slaughter.
And I imagine if you found any picture of any war between two forces with magic being used, you could probably find something that looked like that. Also, keep in mind the scope. Teldrassil was a tree that literally had mountains in it. Entire cities were nestled in its boughs. The picture you found shows a moderate to large scale conflict within a mountain range.
It’s not the same. If I showed a Forsaken casing a fireball or pyroblast or flamestrike against some humans, that wouldn’t be the same, either.
Also, it’s interesting that you say “regardless if trolls were right or wrong”. Because again, I think that’s something that can’t just be ignored as easily as it seems like it’s being ignored. I don’t like the idea of “right or wrong”, but in this case, I suppose I have to ask the question.
Were the Amani trolls still attacking? Because if that’s the case, you cannot in good faith blame high elves or humans for taking steps to protect themselves from continued aggression from an enemy that they had been under the impression they had defeated in combat, and that had a history of lying in wait, growing stronger, then attacking en masse. I imagine if orcs or Tauren or even dwarves had continued behaving in this matter, they would probably have titles like “Orcslayer” or “Dwarfslayer”.
You can’t critique the title if you ignore the things that preceded it. A guy nicknamed “Sharkkiller” might raise some eyebrows for getting called that, unless you point out that every time he goes into the water, he keeps getting attacked by sharks.
I apologize, but I want to make sure I understand this before responding to it. Are you saying imagine a scenario where the following happens:
- Orcs shatter the human empires. Stormwind is no more
- Humans are forced to hide in their peripheral territories
- Orcs systematically raid them for sport to kill them to make sure they won’t grow to revolt
I’m going to assume that’s what it is, so I apologize if you didn’t mean that.
Again, I think you’re ignoring some context. If this was a case where humans had attacked orcs as soon as they came out of the Dark Portal, then were driven off by the orcs until the orcs continued moving (let’s say Nethergarde Keep or…say, Duskwood), then settled there, living peacefully for millennia? And then, humans attacked en masse, orcs formed an alliance with…dwarves, maybe, who then decimated their numbers, forcing the humans into seclusion. And then, the humans continued attacks against the orc kingdoms? Which led to orcs creating human raiding parties?
I mean, that would be a similar situation. And if humans were saying that they were wiped out, I’d be asking them the same questions. “Didn’t you start this?” “Are you still trying to fight someone who nearly wiped you out? Why?” “You had thousands of years. Is that land really that important?”
The problem with reversing scenarios like that is that it frequently ends up only working if you ignore the prior information. You see how oddly it read when I wrote the conflict with orcs and humans the same way I did with elves and trolls?
I agree. But I like to think they can come up with a decent explanation.
“What the hell, Kael?”
“My people were wiped out by the Scourge, and our source of life was taken away from us. When that happened, we turned to humans for help, and ended up dealing with the most racist one I have ever encountered, who kept systematically trying to kill us. Then, he actually was going to do it. I’M JUST SAYING I WASN’T IN THE BEST HEAD SPACE.”
Something that both acknowledges what he did, and still gives a decent explanation for “villain-batting” him, is, I think what the term is.
They - and I hesitate to even say this - ended up kind of doing that with Garrosh, in Warlords of Draenor. What he said when he was fighting Thrall actually made me - me, the human - stop and go “…crap. I can’t dismiss that.” He wasn’t redeemed by any means, but…but it gave some context to his decisions.
Because it was utmost devastation, with that single moment Amani Empire was undone. They lost and it took many many years until Zul’Jin came out to unite scattered and broken tribes.
It’s not a matter of one patch, where trolls get some fancy eyes to fight back. You need to take a bigger picture, the consequences of these actions. And the consequences for Amani were truly tragic.
I personally think that yes, humans and elves were in the wrong there . Especially elves. Who were the ones who caused this conflict by settling in the heartlands and sacred place of the natives knowing very well that it will arise eternal hostility.
Just like Orcs would arise eternal hostility by razing Moonglade putting fancy fortress on top of it and hunting Nelves til the very rim of their territories for daring to fight back.
So to me it’s a perfect equivalent. Teldrassil and Troll Wars. Both were fighting for their own land, both were decimated. With difference that Nelves get their martyrology and tearful songs on how much they suffer, and trolls don’t get any sympathy at all.
5 Likes
It isn’t officially stated that the High Elves who invaded Amani lands killed civilians and children specifically, no, but it isn’t stated they didn’t either.
The exact quote from Chronicles is: “Yet the Elves stubbornly pressed forward, using their magical prowess to decimate any Amani who dared cross their path.”
A path, mind you, that led all the way through Amani territory, their homeland.
Which they had every right to defend.
So, after advancing further and further into someone else’s land, killing everyone who “dared cross their path” and eventually chosing one of their sacred sites to build a city upon it, the High Elves were then “willing to just ignore them” ?
I mean, wow, isn’t that generous, right?
And it isn’t that the Amani were okay with it for 4k years and then suddenly went “mad” and attacked them. They tried everything in their might to stop them from desecrating their holy place, but failed due to the Runestones. It was only when they received aid from Zandalar that they saw their chance to reclaim it.
Why not? There was never a treaty signed. The Amani never gave up their claims on their lands. The Elves may have believed they had won the conflict, but that doesn’t make them rightful owners per definition.
13 Likes
War.
This was a war. The Amani trolls started the war, then lost the war.
The consequences to the Amani empire were catastrophic. It was shattered. But these were the consequences to a war they chose to wage. Quel’thalas wasn’t expanding any more than it already had. It was there for 4,000 years in relative seclusion. If anything, the humans uniting under the banner of Arathi were a much more active threat. They were actively uniting, and forming an empire right at their doorstep.
However, instead of dealing with this active threat? They chose to move on the elves, who, again, had not made any additional attempts to expand. Ironically, history might have changed if the trolls had moved on the fledgling human kingdoms. Because without elven magic to back them up, they would have been a much easier target.
Meanwhile, the people in Teldrassil were not at war. That’s why what happened there resonated with so many people. These were civilians.
If memory serves, the elves did not know they had settled on top of lands sacred to trolls. Ruins, right? And there could have been a diplomatic settlement, possibly, but the trolls had initially attacked the elves on sight, and continued to do so.
In the case of Moonglade, again, that’s not remotely similar. For one, there are currently people living in the Moonglade. There was no one living in these ruins.
No. This is not true.
The people of Teldrassil were not fighting. They were civilians. That’s the difference. They hadn’t agreed to take up arms against anything. They weren’t fighting. The actual fighting force was on the way to Silithus. If something had happened to them? Sure, you could make an argument like that. Like, if Oculeth did some telemancy and routed them, or Thalryssa did something? Sure.
You know how a lot of players for both factions find what happened in Brennedam confusingly barbaric? Attacking a bunch of farmers? That’s what happened here, except on a much larger scale.
The equivalent would be if during the Troll Wars? While the Amani forces were moving towards combat? Someone went and killed every single Amani that was left behind. Every man, woman and child. The young, the old, the sick, the healthy. They went ahead and killed every single civilian.
You’d be upset with that, yes? Refer to whoever did such a thing as some kind of monster? That’s what’s going on.
People are talking about how much the night elves are suffering because people - humans, in the real world, I mean - have an idea about morality, about rules of engagement, things like that. Most people find the slaughter of civilians something deserving of sympathy and pity. There’s a general understanding that people involved in armed combat might die. No one likes that, but we all understand that. But what happened to the night elves was not that.
This isn’t about hating trolls. This is about responding to what’s actually happened.
1 Like
Night elves also lost the war and yet for past 2 years we get nothing by cry threads on how wrong it was in doing that.
And even if Amani lost the war that doesn’t deny at all that they were genocided.
But they did know that they’re going through troll territories, look on the map really - how much distance they had to go through, how many thousands of miles to reach there. How many trolls they slaughtered to get there.
And settled in holy place.
And just because it was in ruins doesn’t give them any right to raze it and built upon it.
It’s like claiming that we should destroy Acropolis or Colliseum because these are just old ruins to put fancy hotel on it’s place.
Honestly it’s getting more upsetting that I have to argue it. It really showcases how enforced narrative can cloud objective judgement.
Edit: And lastly- Do you honestly believe that even if Trolls did diplomatically approached them and said " You’re not welcome, turn around and leave" would elves respect that?
10 Likes