Dude. Literally it is so unbelievably easy to get 2k+ that you have to be trolling with this. You can get 2k+ with barely above a 50% winrate. I almost think it’s bugged.
Why would they need to do this? I agree with dual spec though, I think it’ll make more people play. And that’s what I want.
I don’t know why it’s so hard for the Alliance to understand that the factions are symbiotic in this version of the game. My suggestion would make the entire game better, but you’re too short-sighted, and views like yours are exactly why it probably won’t happen.
You are the short-sighted one you cant give every benefit to one faction and expect the other to be healthy.
If 1500 is the mid-point of the bell curve, where would you put 2k on the bell curve?
Hell of a post. Kudos. Prepatch honor farming ruined this expansion giving players far too much of advantage.
No. An insane honor grind is the issue. Pre-farming it is NOT the root cause here. If you could farm it at any reasonable speed you wouldn’t even care about pre-patch.
“I made a mistake and they did too but I can’t fix mine so they shouldn’t be able to either.” You’re miserable.
What’s more pressing than BG queues? Oh right! “Humanity”… Humans are Alliance. 
I am sorry, I don’t think the honor needs to be increased. The queue rates do. If you can get into games much faster than now you are getting more honor. It’s quite simple. TBC isn’t supposed to be a smash and grab of gear, and I think thats ok. What is not ok is having to afk for 20-40 mins to find another group of players to kill each other with. This crap is too complicated and restricting which does affect the honor gain.
Case and point, you wouldnt have had the time to type all this up if queues were fixed. You would be pvping, you know, the whole reason why most of us came back for TBC in the first place?
Some people enjoy arena in TBC regardless of the outcome. The sky is not falling chicken little.
Such a stupid thing to say. How can anyone farm at a reasonable pace with 30-1 hour queue times. Do you have some exploit we should know about?
It will be weeks to months before an average player will have a chance in PvP combat vs a player who “prefarmed”
This is the point of my post. To bring a civil discussion about what can be done to remedy the issues I have seen from many different players, myself included.
This is perhaps for the exact reasons someone would play a Classic variant over Retail. QoL changes award immediate gratification, and not long-term gratification. Which also lead towards more independence of individuals, and more of a single-player-centric playstyle, which is a much different sort of feel to that of a community-centric playstyle.
This seems (to me) to be a comment out of left-field. I’m also not sure that you’ve clearly stated what you’re trying to say. Why would “not in the spirit of TBC” be arguing in bad faith? (Not that I’ve ever made this argument, as whatever “the spirit of ” means needs to be defined clearly for us to be able to determine whether something is or isn’t).
It also forced players to choose whether to play WoW Classic or TBC Classic (or to pay a fee to have a character cloned to the other).
Ah. Yeah, for sure! 
Meh… I don’t know that your claims are accurate, but I also would not dispute this; except to say that it also provided exactly the same for vehicle for Horde to go Alliance, and you can’t look at history and suggest that people had no idea there would be BG queues for Horde.
No it isn’t. It’s completely valueless. You literally paid to do it, and didn’t earn anything for it, unless you were violating the EULA.
What? This also seems like a comment out of left-field. “I want Retail, but I’m playing Classic. Make Classic more Retail like!” doesn’t seem like a compelling argument, imo…
I can. I could also tell you other things. However, you very much can reroll as a human. You just can’t have all of your current progression if you do so. Not like you couldn’t have done so much, much earlier though if you cared about BG queue times.
[quote=“Axkivo-rattlegore, post:1, topic:1002528”]
This is an interesting point. Because, if the changes they have made to Arenas and Arena gearing weren’t applied then this would be different. So perhaps advocate to reverse the changes here.
Allow for players to queue for ranked arenas, lose 10 games and still get gear, just like they did in the original iteration of TBC.
I don’t think this is true, but maybe it is. I doubt it would be true if you qualify the statement with, “Most active raiders…”
Not true at all. We have no idea how large of an impact Dual Spec will have on TBC Classic PVE, except for the historic effects that Dual Spec had when it was a thing in Retail.
The only thing that shows someone is arguing in bad faith, imo, is if they continue to say things like, “If you disagree with what I’m asserting, then you are arguing in bad faith.”
Here’s a link to some of my opinions on dual spec:
However, please do note that:
which very clearly indicates that dual spec is against the indented design decisions for TBC (original).
Right! This is a great point, imo.
This has always been the way, and is in most things… The Matthew Effect is not dissimilar to this.
I like how you put us above you in your number crunching! Humble, and good taste 
There is advantage to spending more time playing.
You’re just trying to gain a personal advantage by forming a coalition with others who don’t have the time to put into the game that those who do have, and thus have an advantage over others in a game that has been intentionally designed to give advantage to those who put in more time (imo).
Or maybe have gear equalization. Pretty sure this is a Retail feature that is implemented in later expansions, but again is a Retail feature.
This greatly detracts from its value.
How is this true to original?
I met an accountant a few years ago, who after about 3-4 years in Accounting realized that wasn’t what he wanted to do. He went to a coding bootcamp, and not too long after ended up as a game designer working at Blizzard.
Just saying, if you really believe in some of these changes, idk your situation in life, but if it isn’t several steps above a game developer at Blizzard, this might not be too far off of a possibility for you. As much as I disagree with some of your ideas, I think you have some very good ideas, and obviously are passionate about the game.
I feel we’ve been down this road in Retail at some point…
Is it though? I mean, I feel like you have definitely written a lot of text, and you have argued some things reasonable well, but that doesn’t necessarily equate to any of this being a real shame, from what I can tell…
As for this, I don’t really have any strong disagreement, other than Dual Spec. For reasons already stated, I believe, but one is that it’s against the original design and the other is
You dont think the game should be fair? If blizzard lets Horde have every advantage in the game why would people ever play Alliance? What do you think caused this mess in the first place. The zero downsides to playing Horde they put faction changes in place that sets a bad precendent.
This is perhaps for the exact reasons someone would play a Classic variant over Retail. QoL changes award immediate gratification, and not long-term gratification. Which also lead towards more independence of individuals, and more of a single-player-centric playstyle, which is a much different sort of feel to that of a community-centric playstyle.
You mean like the QoL feature of being able to purchase as many tailor/primal alts as your wallet can afford that has already been implemented into the game? There is no restriction on number of battle net accounts.
It also forced players to choose whether to play WoW Classic or TBC Classic (or to pay a fee to have a character cloned to the other).
Let’s be real here, Classic servers are dead. Everyone is playing TBC.
Meh… I don’t know that your claims are accurate, but I also would not dispute this; except to say that it also provided exactly the same for vehicle for Horde to go Alliance, and you can’t look at history and suggest that people had no idea there would be BG queues for Horde.
The first thing these level 58 boosters did was not come to these forums, I promise you that. They google searched “best TBC race for PvP” and picked what google told them, which leads them to the streamer/metagamer community, which told them it was horde.
No it isn’t. It’s completely valueless. You literally paid to do it, and didn’t earn anything for it, unless you were violating the EULA.
Time is money friend. Also, if it is valueless, then why is there not a level 70 boost in the game?
What? This also seems like a comment out of left-field. “I want Retail, but I’m playing Classic. Make Classic more Retail like!” doesn’t seem like a compelling argument, imo…
I don’t want retail I want to be able to queue battlegrounds in classic tbc without waiting for 30 minutes to an hour.
I can . I could also tell you other things. However, you very much can reroll as a human. You just can’t have all of your current progression if you do so. Not like you couldn’t have done so much, much earlier though if you cared about BG queue times.
Another one of the “I got mine so screw you” posts. How unique.
Allow for players to queue for ranked arenas, lose 10 games and still get gear, just like they did in the original iteration of TBC.
You seem to have missed the point of recreating teams at 1500. Ideally you would go 6-4, 7-3, or if lucky, 8-2 and end the week above 1500. If not you would remake the team.
I don’t think this is true, but maybe it is. I doubt it would be true if you qualify the statement with, “Most active raiders…”
No doubt the gold is farmable. 7 heroic dailies a week nets you 150g a week. However, assuming you are progression raiding, 50g leftover a week isn’t much for consumes and repairs. Many guilds have this phases content on farm, but some haven’t even had their first 25 man.
Here’s a link to some of my opinions on dual spec:
50 silver and free at trainer only is basically the same thing…
This has always been the way, and is in most things… [The Matthew Effect] is not dissimilar to this.
Ah, good reason to keep things the way they are. Awesome.
There is advantage to spending more time playing.
This advantage is cool and all in PvE content, but really removes the “competitive” aspect of PvP content. It really is not fun (or competitive) versing someone of the same class with more health and damage than you.
You’re just trying to gain a personal advantage by forming a coalition with others who don’t have the time to put into the game that those who do have, and thus have an advantage over others in a game that has been intentionally designed to give advantage to those who put in more time (imo).
No, I’m trying to gain EVEN FOOTING. YOU are the one that is trying to prevent casual players from being on EVEN FOOTING. Let’s make that clear.
This greatly detracts from its value.
Having the ratings based on skill rather than gear detracts from its value?
How is this true to original?
Back to the “this isn’t TBC-like” arguments. See the level 58 boost and pre-patch dilemma to come back to the reality of the beta crusade classic.
I’m curious what your arguments are here? I think we agree dual spec (at trainer only) is a good addition to TBC classic. The level 58 boost is here, why can we not have faction/race change?
Great post. Very thorough, ty.
However, reading that post makes me think “wtf…”. Honestly, this makes me condsider quitting. You may have ‘broken the spell’ for me…
Yes actually. If this were tightly restricted, I think it would have a more positive effect than the negative effects of having it cater towards QoL.
Not sure how you thought I wasn’t being real. The idea that you had to choose or pay was something I didn’t support from way before TBC Classic came out. Had there been an upgrade path that would be made available for any newly rolled WoW Classic character to TBC as well as any current one, that would be my personal preference.
I’d much rather your citations than your promises. No offense, but I don’t trust you, and I don’t distrust you particularly. I just care whether the information your offering is accurate and how I can verify it for myself.
And if you’re spending it in a game, it’s of zero worth
Non sequitur
Of course. You can do that. Just have to do it.
I’d maybe follow this up if I remembered the context, but I don’t and you haven’t quoted with links, so … sure.
Yep. I missed that point. I was a clicker during actual TBC, and although I formed my own groups, I wasn’t very good at the game.
Of course, I didn’t miss the point at all. I merely pointed out a more accurate description of what you were saying; let unskilled players have more equal access to gear.
If you are assuming someone is progression raiding, what else are you assuming? This is 15 year old content… are you going for world fifteen-years-later firsts?
Curious
Yes, that I agree with.
Not a good reason to keep things the way they are. A good reference that points to how they have been for millennia. If you can find a way that actually works that changes things, then go ahead.
Don’t expect others to change reality for you, just because you don’t like it.
You already have one.
Nope.
Don’t have to make it clear. It’s already clear.
No, it doesn’t. But that’s not what you’re asking for.
First argument, if you’re going to cite a forum post, cite it properly…
If you’ve read anything about any of my opinions on dual spec and think that I am in agreement that dual spec is good, then I feel you are either illiterate, functionally illiterate or trolling.
And death knights, tokens, faction transfers, LFR, etc. Sure why not? May as well cater to the people who are going to pay, if that brings in enough money, regardless of how many people stop playing.
Some are already selling boosts so it looks like people will start busting out that credit card.
So why is it only PvP that has to suffer this apparently intended TBC style of absurdly, wildly unhealthy grinds while PvE is indeed a “smash and grab”?
Because you are supposed to LIKE pvp. It shouldn’t matter as much how fast you get the gear if all you need to do is spend more time doing the thing you enjoy.
If you dont like pvp gtfo.