Tell my about your lost hopes in BfA

Most anyone who happens to have the misfortune of a leadership role this expansion.

Any one of the Horde leaders who could rub two coppers together should know that Sylvanas’s actions are a clear counter to the Hordes survival. Granted the destruction of Teldrassial dealt a telling blow against the Alliance she clearly committed to this action out of hand and no one had the guts to call her up on it until one of the leaders was caught out attempting to parlay with the Alliance.

So now the Hordes leaders who by extent represent their peoples are opportunistic cowards, who are either too blind or too dumb to act until a knife is drawn across their throats by willingly allowing their assets to be thrown into a war they couldn’t possibly win because none of them thought to do a background check on Sylvanases legitimacy or sanity on being warchief.

Meanwhile on the Alliance side Adwin is all too happy just to let the unstable, god-like Jaina Proudmoore just run his campaign against the Horde while he sits in Stormwind likely moping about this and that because hes too weak a King to lead his Alliance to victory, relying on broken orcs and traitor Horde to win his victory for him.

All in all its just a broken mess.

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But in the context of the BfA cinematic, even the healing moment was more complex, because the Alliance was on the aggressive, and the opening monologue implied that it wasn’t in retaliation for something either; they’d just decided that the time had come to attack the Horde. So Anduin was doing a great peaceful healing on his troops so that they could push the war that he didn’t want. I liked that story tension/contradiction.

Basically, I just wanted the expansion that the cinematic and the early Silithus quests promised. Where the war started because the Horde was mining a superweapon and the Alliance decided to attack before they could do anything with it. That would’ve given both sides excellent motivation to be in the war.

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Yes, it was awesome.
the alliance have wanted to reclaim lordaeron since always.
We already attacked twice this would be our third attempt.

The alliance, being in a position of power decides that they should march on lordaeron for many reasons.

1)reclaim our jerusalem
2)cleanse it from forsakens and restore it to it’s former glory
3)make sure that the horde isn’t preparing weapons of mass destruction.
4)others alliance leaders convince anduin to attack it when we had people like genn or jaina with reasons to fight/attack the horde
5)the alliance would not be the reactive force but rather, the proactive
6)make the horde be on the defensive
7)it would not create a sense of permanent revenge
8)maybe the alliance would start be shamed for going to far so asking for peace now would be a more acceptable solution and this would be used for conflict, maybe with our civil war that would help the imbalance of power.

and after this one we never hear about faction war ever again.

But noo it all had to go directly into the trash.
Rip us.

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Story leaves a lot to be desired for BfA after 8.1, but unlike WoD I’m still motivated to get on every day. Gameplay wise I’m having fun with BfA. I’ll take something to do even if isn’t the most well executed (War fronts, expeditions, and HoZ) over sitting on my :peach: in my garrison with nothing to do at all like in WoD.

Speak only for yourself, and nothing but your yourself.

Anyway, the only thing that BfA has ruined for me thus far is the proper faction war I wanted. Now it just seems the Horde and Alliance are just fighting be in Anduin’s club and trying to make sure Sylvanas isn’t invited.

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TBH I remember thinking, isn’t it kind of odd that in the Legion cinematic it’s her that rides on at the helm of the Horde gunship all super cool in high-def CGI and looks over at Varian; instead of Vol’jin…? Like shouldn’t it be both the (current) leaders of the factions in that shot? O.O

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I suspect her story changed from a more heroic version to what it is now. Or maybe they just knew Sylvanas was the Horde’s flagship waifu, and wanted to sell as many subscriptions as possible.

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You know, on a whim I recently looked over posts on the old forums back when BFA was first announced…

There was so much genuine excitement. So much optimism, especially with the expansion cinematic (still my favorite one, even if it is entirely misleading). There were reservations about a faction war theme, but there was also so much engaging speculation and hope for all the good potential it brought.

It’s rather depressing to look back on with what we know now. All the pieces were there for something cohesive and morally complex (at least for Warcraft standards). Instead, they deliberately chose to disregard everything in service of an ulterior story that, by the time it is revealed, few will probably still care about.

There’s a lot of good things in BFA.

The overarching story isn’t one of them.

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I assumed at the time it was simply because the Broken Isles were on the East Kingdoms’ doorstep, so she was the nearest Horde leader.

/sigh I still get a thrill of delight over the nod of respect she gives Varian in that cinematic, leader to leader. How I hate that she’s been reduced to a cartoon villain, gloating in her evil lair while she leads the heroes into a trap that…fails utterly.

If I didn’t know that Metzen wrote the cinematic just before leaving, and that the new folks probably changed everything but the cast involved after he left, I’d say the cinematic was just a straight up bait and switch. An egregious one.

Sylvanas: “We have paid the price for sharing this world.”
Also Sylvanas: decides sharing the world might encounter a hiccup or two a century or so down the road, even with the most sharingest Alliance leader in the entire history of ever, and decides to just take it all for the Horde (by which she mostly means herself)

Sylvanas: “And we have forgotten what makes us strong.”
Also Sylvanas: pits the world’s two largest superpowers against each other in a global war, and ups the stakes to a war of annihilation, right after both just barely made it out of the meatgrinder of a war against the Legion, and the planet herself is dying

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Obviously she was just following Tong’s big book of sage wisdom about the virtues of unending war. In the end she was just looking out for Azeroth! :grinning:

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I’ve lost any hopes in the Alliance being a proactive faction, or getting the spotlight. This is the second time we have an expansion about the Horde’s problems and how everyone has to work together to fix it. And once again the price was the Horde commiting some heinous wsr crime against the Alliance (Theramore, Teldrassil) for which there’ll be no retribution because it’ll all get pinned on “the one bad Warchief”.

Sucks for the Horde, because once again they’re the bad guy, and sucks for the Alliance, because once again they’re just an accessory for the Horde.

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Ah yes. Tong.
Tong: “My degree in Mixology leaves me perfectly qualified to give lectures on the geo-political struggles of a world my people have remained ignorant of and apart from for over ten millenia.”

Almost as bad as:
Taran Zhu: “I will attempt to completely invalidate Vareesa’s grief over the death of her husband, and her pursuit of justice, directly to her face. Then later have the gall to claim nobody had suffered the atrocities of Garrosh’s Horde as much as my people, with Tyrande and Jaina standing right there in the room with me.”

Pandaren… were kind of insufferable, outside the topics of food and drink, now that I look back at MoP.

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Nah see 10000 years of hiding from every major threat the world has had to face gives them the moral authority to lecture others on how warfare should be conducted. You just don’t get it you warmongering bastard!

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The Biggest mistake blizzard made was killing both Vol’jin and Varian back in legion. If both had survived and lived through legion to BFA the war would be that much more interesting.

It feels like they were both simply killed so Goldens Precious Anduin could step up and take all the focus. Also so they could just villian bat Sylvanas into the ground and take the rest of the Horde with it. A war with two leaders like Vol’jin and Varian would have been far more interesting.

My second issue stems from the first, They promised us a faction war but by making Anduin our leader they essentially Neutered the Alliance. We are nothing but passive good guys trying to save the Horde. However Horde have it just as bad by having Sylvanas taking the Horde to the bad place again basically making the horde seem like nonredeemable badguys for basically doing evil crud again.

I wish this expansion had been about the Alliance getting sick of sylvanas’s testing their borders and desecrating the Alliance dead. The Alliance Initiating the war with the Horde to take back the Old human kingdoms and end sylvanas threat.

On the Horde side they could be dealing with Sylvanas Internally while Vol’jin reached out to find allies. Building up the Hordes roster of champions along the way as they recruit different troll tribes. Even having Baine going on mission to recruit the Tanuka and Yangoul into the Horde could have been interesting developments for him.

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They still would have had to give us a far better reason for the war, because neither Vol’jin nor Varian would have been stupid enough to throw their troops from the Legion meatgrinder into the BfA meatgrinder.

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I’m pretty sure the Ironforge Dwarves as a people have never been relevant to the plot. At most the brothers and Moira get a small shred of spotlight. It’s awful.

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Sylvanas’s plans for Stormwind are found out by Varian so he decides to strike first. After the broken shore he intends to fufill his threat to end the horde after they left the alliance to die at the hands of the legion.

Turaylon finds out what has happens to the people of lordearon and how Sylvanas is raising their dead. He demands that Stormwind repay its debt to the People or lordearon and take back the north and restore Lordearon like they did for stormwind.

Danath returns from outland and decides to take back Arathi for his people after they were driven off by the forsaken.

Dwarves decide to secure the North so the wildhammer clans can secure their homes.

Alleria and Veressa decide after meeting their sister they need to liberate the Blood elves from the Horde as it becomes apparent that they are being threatened by Sylvanas.

The Light forged want to save the Naaru that is trapped in the Sunwell and restore it. or the Lightforged find out about what the Orc’s did to their people on Draenor and intend on taking revenge for them.

Genn demands they assist in taking back GIlneas for the worgen and Gilnean’s.

Tyrande is sick of the Horde in Ashenvale and decides to drive them out by force after they didn’t leave after MOP.

There were plenty of good reasons for the alliance to go to war against the Horde.

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One of the biggest failures of BFA is that it shows that the Blizzard writing team does not care about the History of this game. It is not simply that they have forgotten some tidbit of lore, or some errata of cannon which would be annoying to somebody who loves the lore like I do, but instead that they simply do not care about it. They have repeated the most hated story for the Horde beat for beat, while seeming to indulge in every tired storyline, every over used trope of WoW storytelling, and adding nothing of interest to the tale. They have valued shock over lasting impact, spectacle over immersion, and brought their setting past the point of return for so many players.

This game has been around for over a decade, and when I say they do not care about history, I mean that they do not value that many of their fans have been in the world of Azeroth for nearly a decade. They are not Baine, or Saurfang, or Anduin, but instead have taken on the roles of heroes and adventurers. Of Orcs, and Night Elves, and Gnomes, and Tauren. Yet the time players have put into Azeroth is not seen as a thing to be cherished, but instead yet another resource to be exploited for shock. After all, that is why such damage was caused to Tedrassil, to shock the players based on the time and effort they put into the story and world. I dare say they were hoping that they would hurt the players who were most invested in those lands and people lost, exploiting the passion of the fans to make their own story seem greater without realizing what kind of lasting harm that would have on the setting as a whole.

I think a large part of that problem is that the Writers do not see this as an MMO, but instead are trying to tell a story they would imagine in a book, or a tv series. It does not help that the story in it of itself is hideous, but they have misjudged both their audience and their medium. In any story you need to keep in mind who the protagonist is, and in any MMO or video game that protagonist is the player character (or player characters in other games) WoW’s current story can’t even clear that simple hurdle as nothing about this story feels like it relates to the player character. They are just a window for the audience to view the actions of other characters that have nothing to do with the player’s actions.

WoW’s major characters in the story they are telling are… by and large… free from dependence on the player character. Saurfang has done most of his major activities completely independent of the player character. (Look at all his cut-scenes) in fact, we could be absent from the story in its entirety and the story they are telling would move on just fine. Nothing about BFA requires the players. We are no longer the heroes of our own story, no longer the people driving the narrative along in some fashion. We are just here, disjointed from the story, as we wait for other people to make the moves irregardless of what we have done.

My biggest lost hope in WoW is that I used to think my character, the Horde and Alliance Player character mattered in some way… that our actions over the past fifteen odd years have changed the shape of things to come… but they have not. Becoming friends with all the races in my faction? Meaningless. Saving those people? They die for shock. The story following up on the impact of my character actions? Saurfang didn’t even want the Horde PC to escape prison.

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I agree with this so much, They have taken all agency away from the player and put their favorite characters as the leads.

We are just spectating events as they play out and feel like we have no involvement in the story.

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I mean, you pretty much said it all already.

Sylvanas has, at least seemingly, developed in the exact opposite direction from how I was hoping she would develop when she became Warchief.

And the whole redux of MoP’s exact plot sucks too.

Other than that though, I think I enjoy a lot of the smaller scale stuff. Indivual character’s stories, zone storylines, etc. All the Azshara stuff has been fine too.

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