Tanks Need PVP Buffs

[Fjorgen-moon-guard]

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

Hence the suggestion…

uh huh

/10char

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

It would require a complete overhaul of how WoW PvP works to make tanks fit into a regular meta.

[Tæls-tichondrius]

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

Here is the reason that tanks won’t get anything like this in PvP: because nobody sees a tank spec in a BG and goes “Oh boy I can’t wait to fight that.”

The only time people think that is when it’s something they can easily kill. Not sure what you thought you were proving here.

This is doubly ironic when you realize that
Tanks take an increased 60% damage, and - yet - people still struggle to kill them.

And people call the Tank players bad.

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

Tanks do not do enough damage to secure kills, they don’t do enough off-healing to replace a healer or a hybrid DPS, and while they can have a decent amount of CC they don’t really have any more or less than a DPS that can actually capitalize on a good CC chain.

That’s a problem that should be addressed. I agree.

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

nobody with an ounce of common sense wastes their time funneling damage into a tank

Well, then there’s a lot of people lacking common sense out there, according to this measure here.

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

You get CC’d and ignored until everybody else is dead

Depends on circumstances.

A BDK stealing your Healers demands an immediate response. A Tank CCing your Healers demands an immediate response. A Healer/Tank combo can spin a flag like nobodies business.

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

Tanks serve two purposes: flag carrying and base sitting the farthest bases solo so you can call incomings and survive long enough until backup arrives to defend the base.

That depends on the Tank in question. They all have particular niches.

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

You’re not going to get more than that for the simple fact of NOBODY wants to fight you.

Experience tells a different story.

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

It’s not fun, it’s just boring for everyone involved

Yes - people would say this when fighting something difficult. It’s always more “Fun” when the target is an easy kill, right?

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

Blizzard tried giving tanks a lot of disruption and it got nerfed.

Why did that happen do you suppose?

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

They tried giving them damage (do you remember Vengeance the stacking stat and not the spec? I do) and that got taken away as well.

Again: why did that happen do you suppose?

Was it, perhaps, because non-Tanks were complaining about Tanks actually being able to do something more than be a nuisance?

It really is comically ironic when you think about it, seeing as that is always the argument used against Tanks in PVP. The moment Blizzard makes them do more than “Nothing,” the non-Tanks whine. “We can’t have Tanks contributing, otherwise our argument about them being useless in PVP fails!”

Gotta maintain the status quo, right?

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

It’s not gonna happen bro.

Eh… don’t be so sure of yourself. The Devs have expressed, many times, that they have no inclination to exclude entire roles from PVP content. They might as well have said, “Why, yes - we are considering ways to make Tanks more viable in PVP.”

Buckle up. Tanks aren’t going anywhere.

@Inemia-wyrmrest-accord

probably just need to remove the damage taken modifier.

It’d be nice if they tweaked this a little (speaking from a BDK experience). It’s pretty punishing at the moment - although, this may require Tank-specific tuning. Not all Tanks are alike.

@Troolys-bleeding-hollow

Tanks in general just need to be redesigned in PvP, not just buffed.

Right… but seeing as that’s unlikely to happen at the moment, the best we’ve got are interesting suggestions like the one made by the OP.

[Fjorgen-moon-guard]

@Tæls-tichondrius

The only time people think that is when it’s something they can easily kill. Not sure what you thought you were proving here.

This is doubly ironic when you realize that
Tanks take an increased 60% damage, and - yet - people still struggle to kill them.

And people call the Tank players bad.

Show me one person in this thread that thinks fighting against a tank is fun. I’ll wait. 60% increased damage taken is pretty fair when your class is designed to, you know, tank raid bosses that deal significantly more single hits than a player. Tanks have more defensives on shorter cooldowns, the fact that you want MORE implies you die very easily, which implies that you are not utilizing your defensives properly which doesn’t come as a surprise literally at all.

@Tæls-tichondrius

That’s a problem that should be addressed. I agree.

It is not a problem. It is the role. You are not meant to do damage, idk why you want to be nigh unkillable AND have kill potential, it’s like you just want god mode. Please stop. You don’t get all of the pie and when things do, they get nerfed.

@Tæls-tichondrius

Well, then there’s a lot of people lacking common sense out there, according to this measure here.

Yeah, your responses have demonstrated that.

@Tæls-tichondrius

Depends on circumstances.

A BDK stealing your Healers demands an immediate response. A Tank CCing your Healers demands an immediate response. A Healer/Tank combo can spin a flag like nobodies business.

Stealing my healers? I am a healer, idgaf about a bdk lmao. There is not one threat to my existence on this planet that takes the form of a blood dk. A ROGUE CCing me, that has kill potential and actually burst reasonably well, now that demands immediate response. Once again, you don’t get to be incredibly tanky and also deal great damage. It doesn’t work that way, it never has.

@Tæls-tichondrius

That depends on the Tank in question. They all have particular niches.

Lol okay.

@Tæls-tichondrius

Yes - people would say this when fighting something difficult. It’s always more “Fun” when the target is an easy kill, right?

You completely, totally, irrevocably MISS the entire point. Your ONE SINGULAR STRENGTH is that you are HARD TO KILL. This is FINE. What’s not fine is being AS HARD TO KILL AS A TANK, and ALSO HAVE THE KILL POTNETIAL OF A DPS.

Fighting a tank is not fun because it’s not interesting. You’re not going to kill me, I’m not going to kill you. It’s boring. Idk how else to explain that unless you find stalemates exciting which would track tbh.

@Tæls-tichondrius

Why did that happen do you suppose?

Because it wasn’t fun. It’s not hard to figure out, it’s 0 fun. Please don’t misinterpret “difficulty” with “annoyance”. You are not playing to win at this point, you are playing to be a nuisance.

@Tæls-tichondrius

Again: why did that happen do you suppose?

Was it, perhaps, because non-Tanks were complaining about Tanks actually being able to do something more than be a nuisance?

It really is comically ironic when you think about it, seeing as that is always the argument used against Tanks in PVP. The moment Blizzard makes them do more than “Nothing,” the non-Tanks whine. “We can’t have Tanks contributing, otherwise our argument about them being useless in PVP fails!”

Gotta maintain the status quo, right?

At no point has anyone said tanks do nothing. In fact, I articulated their BEST SUITED roles rather well - node defending, flag carrying, surviving and calling incomings, which is valuable to a team and the role that tanks serve.

That’s not what you want.

You want tanks to deal more damage, provide more utility, do MORE than this role. You seem to be too thick skulled to understand that if you give something hard to kill more damage, you create a monster. Blood DKs stacked strength in cataclysm, do you remember that? Do you remember death strikes healing DKs to full w/ all their str gems? They just whittled you down.

Guess what! It got nerfed. Why did it get nerfed?

B A L A N C E .

You cannot be a wall AND an orbital nuke. Classes that ARE get the outcry, and they get nerfed. It’s called player feedback, it’s happening right now as we speak in arena forums I implore you to expand your mind and actually think critically for a just a moment.

@Tæls-tichondrius

Eh… don’t be so sure of yourself. The Devs have expressed, many times, that they have no inclination to exclude entire roles from PVP content. They might as well have said, “Why, yes - we are considering ways to make Tanks more viable in PVP.”

Buckle up. Tanks aren’t going anywhere.

They’re not excluded. Nobody said they were. You are creating a narrative that doesn’t exist, please stop.

[Photonfervor-ravencrest (Photonfervor)]

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

Show me one person in this thread that thinks fighting against a tank is fun.

So you’re telling me that everyone is jumping up and down with excitement to fight a Rogue or Healer? Far from it. But does that mean they should be nerfed into the ground like all the tank specs? Of course not. What does need to happen is that the tank specs need buffs to be able to effectively help their team win a match.

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

your class is designed to, you know, tank raid bosses that deal significantly more single hits than a player.

Healers are designed to keep players alive in those encounters and dps are designed to kill those bosses. So what exactly is your point?

@Lizzyx-korgath

We don’t want warrior tanks more out of control than they are right now.

If they were out of control everyone would be playing them and they would have a high representation around the 3k mark like all the dps and healer specs. The truth is that this is far from the reality of the situation.

@Lizzyx-korgath

If they have a healers they never die

THIS is the real issue.

[Fjorgen-moon-guard]

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

So you’re telling me that everyone is jumping up and down with excitement to fight a Rogue or Healer? Far from it. But does that mean they should be nerfed into the ground like all the tank specs? Of course not. What does need to happen is that the tank specs need buffs to be able to effectively help their team win a match.

Yes, because those fights have quick conclusions and can be outplayed. There’s no “outplaying” a tank, they just sruvive. That’s their job. That’s it. It’s. Not. Fun.

ARE THERE WAYS TO DO IT?

Yes, Warhammer does it really well. But…

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

It would require a complete overhaul of how WoW PvP works to make tanks fit into a regular meta.

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

Healers are designed to keep players alive in those encounters and dps are designed to kill those bosses. So what exactly is your point?

That much more killable pillar of the team can be played, out played, and worked against to take down the enemy team. How many times have you set up a CC chain on a healer, kill the healer, and then the rest of the team die?

Well probably 0 because you play a tank and tanks don’t do enough damage to matter, but that’s what everybody else is doing. You’re in a team fight dealing little damage, disrupting to the best that your toolkit will allow which can be a decent amount to be 100% fair, and surviving. You are also being completely ignored because healers, squishy DPS, and over-extended melee are the kill targets. Not you, because you don’t do enough damage to be a threat and calling you as a target is a waste of cooldowns and time in a fight that’s usually over in less than 2 minutes.

Tanks, please. For the love of god. UNDERSTAND that you HAVE A ROLE. What you’re asking for is to extend beyond your role. When healers start doing ludicrous damage, what happens? People cry and it gets nerfed. Do you remember when hunter stampede w/ 5 spirit beasts was basically lay on hands? It got nerfed, bceause hunters aren’t supposed to self-heal like that. It’s now how the game works.

I’ve provided ample articulation on the role of a tank, how it can be successful, and examples from the game’s history of tanks when they get spicier than their role requires.

You do not want to play a tank in PvP to contribute, you want to be an unkillable menace. Please for the love of god, give it up.

[Mhortai-stormrage]

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

If you click the Community tab at the top of your screen and select Player vs Player you can browse the leader boards for the various formats of Rated PVP. One thing that quickly stands out is that in every format, tanks across the board are lagging significantly behind their dps and healer counterparts.

This has party to do with a lot less tanks thank both DPS and Healers even queuing rated PvP.

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

To start with, I think tanks are taking too much damage right now. However, rather than simply dialing back the hidden debuff that increases all damage taken by tanks in PVP, I would like to see a change that gives tanks a more valuable role in PVP that might be appreciated more than attempting to be the last man standing.

The problem with this is tanks are designed around PvE first. So it would be really hard to give them a “more valuable role” without making them vastly different than they are in PvE. I am actually not against his and have said for a while tanks need to be redefined in PvP somehow, I am just not sure you do it in WoW right now.

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

Blood DK has a PVP talent called Rot and Wither that causes Death and Decay to absorb healing on targets equal to 100% of the damage it deals. The talent itself is mediocre at best, but the concept could be converted into something great.

Blood DKs do ok especially in a BG setting. They can cause all kinds of havoc right now.

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

I would like to see all tanks given a buff that is automatically applied when engaging in PVP. The buff would be as follows:

Devastating Blows - Your damaging attacks and abilities create an absorb on the target for 25% of the damage you dealt, absorbing that much damage the target would deal to you or your allies.

This would give tanks a needed boost to durability, but more importantly, would give tanks a more valuable role in PVP by allowing them to mitigate damage that enemies would deal to their allies, which should be the purpose of a tank in the first place.

The issue with boosting their durability there is a reason already they take more damage in PvP. I honestly think some tanks are already ok they just have niche or specific roles they would play. Some aren’t good FCs but can be really good support and so on.

It’s always one of those things, if tanks are good it’s fun for tanks but nobody else. That is kind of the history of tanks in PvP.

[Photonfervor-ravencrest (Photonfervor)]

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

That much more killable pillar of the team can be played, out played, and worked against to take down the enemy team. How many times have you set up a CC chain on a healer, kill the healer, and then the rest of the team die?

You realize the same can be done with a tank right? CC, kiting, disarms…these all exist for a reason.

Once again though, the reality is that healers are much more durable and prolong fights far more than tanks. There’s a reason dampening exists and there’s a reason Blizz just had to add even more changes to address how powerful healers are.

@Linxy

Player versus Player

• Developers’ notes: We’re adding a healing reduction effect to Rated Battlegrounds and Battleground Blitz this week to reduce the potential for stalemates in these modes. This does not affect unrated Battlegrounds. Similarly, 2v2 Arena matches are being drawn out when there’s a healer on both teams, so we’re increasing the starting healing reduction in 2v2 Arena to allow for initial kill opportunities to be viable earlier.
• All healing done is now reduced by 10% in Rated Battlegrounds and Battleground Blitz.
• 2v2 Arena matches now start with an additional 10% healing reduction.

[Troolys-bleeding-hollow]

@Tæls-tichondrius

Right… but seeing as that’s unlikely to happen at the moment, the best we’ve got are interesting suggestions like the one made by the OP.

Yeah I don’t know about that suggestion. Giving tanks a damage absorb on enemies based on how much damage they deal feels kinda backwards with how much damage some tanks can already pump out, 25% absorption on top of that seems way too high. It just pushes them more into that “unkillable juggernaut” niche which is already a sore spot for most PvPers.

The main issue is that tanks are built for PvE survivability and control, but those same traits don’t transfer well into PvP. The 60% increased damage taken modifier was Blizzard’s band aid fix but it never solved the actual design problem. If tanks are going to have a real place in PvP, they need to be reimagined from the ground up.

Instead of being pure damage sponges, tanks should be redesigned into more of a control or disruption role. Let them keep their original survivability against PvP NPCs, like bosses in Ashran or IoC, but tone that down against players. Reduce their overall damage, increase their utility. Give them more PvP specific toolkits, like disarms, AoE knockbacks, roots, maybe even group/raid wide damage reduction cooldown.

Taunts could be reworked for PvP too, maybe they can reduce the enemy’s damage done against everyone except the tank for a few seconds. Stuff like that would give them more of a purpose.

And honestly, some existing abilities should just be tank exclusive. Like Prot Paladins with Searing Glare, or bringing back the OG Zen Meditation for Brewmaster (which for those unaware, used to redirect enemy spells to the Monk). I thought that was a cool utility defensive, and tanks should receive more abilities like this.

Tanks could be disruptive supports rather than solo-carry powerhouses. That’d make them way more balanced and enjoyable to play with or against.

[Fjorgen-moon-guard]

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

You realize the same can be done with a tank right? CC, kiting, disarms…these all exist for a reason.

Once again though, the reality is that healers are much more durable and prolong fights far more than tanks. There’s a reason dampening exists and there’s a reason Blizz just had to add even more changes to address how powerful healers are.

Which NOBODY is going to do!!! Dude do you not get it??? Nobody WANTS to fight a freaking tank because they survive the stuns and outlive the burst windows, which is a complete and total waste of the cooldowns and CC casts in a fight. Healers and DPS have a MUCH HIGHER chance of dying in those SAME burst windows and blankets.

YES healers can prolong fights longer than tanks, it’s ALMOST as though we are HEALERS HEALING THE TEAM from death. You know how to kill healers? Consider playing a DPS that has hard CC and working with your other DPS, and calling/pinging targets in BGs, and peeling for YOUR healers. CRAZY idea ikr.

Jesus christ this is giving me ulcers.

[Photonfervor-ravencrest (Photonfervor)]

@Mhortai-stormrage

The issue with boosting their durability there is a reason already they take more damage in PvP. I honestly think some tanks are already ok they just have niche or specific roles they would play. Some aren’t good FCs but can be really good support and so on.

I think Blizz has made an effort to create a niche for each of the tanks, I just think it’s plainly obvious that even within their respective niche, they’re just not that effective because of their gimped durability, low damage output with very little burst potential, and little to no more control than their dps counterparts.

@Mhortai-stormrage

if tanks are good it’s fun for tanks but nobody else. That is kind of the history of tanks in PvP.

That’s why I’m suggesting a way for tanks to support their team rather than simply direct buffs to the tanks themselves.

It’s an insane thing to witness, but many players will say outright that healers shouldn’t be able to be killed in PVP. So they’re clearly fine with something that can’t die. The difference is that they only want this because they expect to have their own healer who can’t die, which translates to wanting to be able dps and never die.

When tanks are durable with a lot of control, players don’t recognize that when the tank ties up 3 to 4 dps and prevents them from being able to get to the team fights, that’s a lot of damage and CC that they and the healer aren’t having to deal with. So instead of trying to push back into this model, I’m suggesting an alternative that can clearly assist allies and easily translate to damage meters and score boards so players can see “hey, that tank kept a lot of damage off of us”.

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

Which NOBODY is going to do!!! Dude do you not get it??? Nobody WANTS to fight a freaking tank because they survive the stuns and outlive the burst windows

As do healers lol

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

Healers and DPS have a MUCH HIGHER chance of dying in those SAME burst windows and blankets.

If that was true we wouldn’t have healers taking on the role of FC.

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

Jesus christ this is giving me ulcers.

You could always just take a break from spreading false information and close the window.

[Mhortai-stormrage]

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

I think Blizz has made an effort to create a niche for each of the tanks, I just think it’s plainly obvious that even within their respective niche, they’re just not that effective because of their gimped durability, low damage output with very little burst potential, and little to no more control than their dps counterparts.

I mean this isn’t completely true. Honestly tanks don’t need burst. Tanks have had that in the past and it has been nothing but issues. If they do have that there needs to be ALL kinds of others things adjusted. I think tank players just have an issue of not being able to kill something like a dps. And they do have more control that most dps quite honestly.

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

That’s why I’m suggesting a way for tanks to support their team rather than simply direct buffs to the tanks themselves.

I think most tanks can already do this. Not saying they are perfect but again tanks are designed 100% for PvE in this game. Tanking bosses etc. There would need to be big shift in the wow teams philosophy to completely rework how tanks work just in PvP. I am not saying that isn’t the best course of action. But right now it’s not realistic unfortunately.

[Fjorgen-moon-guard]

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

As do healers lol

My brother, you are playing a tank. Nobody is going to die in your burst windows. Nobody is going to die in mine. This is fine.

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

If that was true we wouldn’t have healers taking on the role of FC.

I can’t even. You realize that healers have very little offensive capabilities and our defensives are bursty and on long cooldowns, right? Literally just wait for forbearance. That’s it. That’s all you have to do, I’ve given you the secret - go forth and prosper, preferably on a DPS so you can actually contribute toward killing a healer.

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

You could always just take a break from spreading false information and close the window.

I invite you to disprove anything I’ve said with sources, I can cite patch notes from all the times tanks have been given buffs and they were immediately taken away because they became monsterous in PvP.

Tanks have a role in PvP, it’s hilarious most of you get ignored in team fights and then feel like you need buffs to make you more relevant. Buffs won’t make you relevant, they’ll just get you nerfed into oblivion.

It sounds like you wanna be a tanky DPS, those exist, I recommend trying one because the role of a tank clearly does not suit your enjoyment.

[Photonfervor-ravencrest (Photonfervor)]

@Mhortai-stormrage

There would need to be big shift in the wow teams philosophy to completely rework how tanks work just in PvP

I feel like this is just a cop out for people who refuse to let go of their bias against tanks or just are severely lacking in critical thinking skills.

Even something so simple as allowing taunt to work on players and reducing damage from that player by X% for the duration of the taunt would work wonders in allowing tanks to be more effective members of their team.

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

My brother, you are playing a tank. Nobody is going to die in your burst windows.

So you’re telling me Blizz is nerfing all healing in rated PVP because no one died in MY burst window? L O L

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

I can cite patch notes from all the times tanks have been given buffs and they were immediately taken away because they became monsterous in PvP.

Did they become monstrous in PVP or did streamers start crying and Blizz catered? Since you’re so keen on citation, how about you fill us in on all the times tanks have made it to AWC and how many times they have won. Then feel free to show us how many times a Rogue, Mage, Lock, or any Healer made it, and how many times they won. Then muster up all the integrity you can and tell me which specs were truly deserving of nerfs.

[Mhortai-stormrage]

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

I feel like this is just a cop out for people who refuse to let go of their bias against tanks or just are severely lacking in critical thinking skills.

I would much rather tanks be good in PvP in some way. I am not really bias against tanks. I am not one of those people that thinks tanks shouldn’t be allowed in PvP. But again I am looking at this from how they approach the game right now.

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

Even something so simple as allowing taunt to work on players and reducing damage from that player by X% for the duration of the taunt would work wonders in allowing tanks to be more effective members of their team.

Don’t they have PvP talents that make it so taunt makes the target take more damage? They did at one point.

[Photonfervor-ravencrest (Photonfervor)]

@Mhortai-stormrage

Don’t they have PvP talents that make it so taunt makes the target take more damage? They did at one point.

They still do, but was quickly nerfed. Now it takes 4 other players attacking the same target to maximize it to increase damage the target takes by 15% for 6 seconds.

The problem is that even with all that coordination, the tank’s damage is so much weaker than that of a dps that you would have been better off just bringing a dps to the fight instead of the tank.

[Mhortai-stormrage]

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

The problem is that even with all that coordination, the tank’s damage is so much weaker than that of a dps that you would have been better off just bringing a dps to the fight instead of the tank.

Increasing tank DPS has always been an issue. Seems they can never get that right.

[Kinsington-stormrage]

PVP needs a complete redesign that actually gives room for tanks to exist rather than whatever we have right now

We need a WoW Rivals mode

Or rather, a “WOW Stadium”.

Toes who nose.

[Fjorgen-moon-guard]

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

Even something so simple as allowing taunt to work on players and reducing damage from that player by X% for the duration of the taunt would work wonders in allowing tanks to be more effective members of their team.

You are an effective member of your team, you just don’t want to play the way that you can be most effective as a tank. Base sitting solo, flag carrying (sure sometimes healers take the flag, sometimes DPS sit bases. Crazy.)

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

So you’re telling me Blizz is nerfing all healing in rated PVP because no one died in MY burst window? L O L

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

but in seriousness, healers are pretty strong

Sincerely, healer

???

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

Did they become monstrous in PVP or did streamers start crying and Blizz catered? Since you’re so keen on citation, how about you fill us in on all the times tanks have made it to AWC and how many times they have won. Then feel free to show us how many times a Rogue, Mage, Lock, or any Healer made it, and how many times they won. Then muster up all the integrity you can and tell me which specs were truly deserving of nerfs.

They became monsterous in PvP. What do you want? Patch notes or videos?

Let’s go with patch notes, we’ll start with vengeance. Also I said that this happened in Mists of Pandaria which was a mistake, it was Cataclysm. I misremembered, so my bad on that.

[Patch 4.0.1] (2010-10-12): Vengeance was Added.
[Patch 4.3.2] Vengeance is no longer triggered by receiving damage from other players.

I don’t think this is the first round of nerfs that Vengeance received but I can’t quite remember, it was originally implemented to help tanks with threat generation. It eventually got phased out in favor of Resolve instead.

Let’s do another, let’s say uhhh… a small one, how about this:

• • Pets in PvP are now immune to Taunt effects for 20 seconds after being Taunted.

Because tanks figured out they could just deny pet damage by taunting the NPC, it got nerfed. Because of course it did.

** Roar_of_the_Protector) (PvP Talent) has been removed.

Here’s a fun one right in line of what you guys are asking for, and it got removed. It redirects 20% of the incoming damage taken by anyone within a range of 10 yards directly to you (the tank). This wasn’t even a case of tanks being ridiculously overpowered, it just dragged fights out and got removed regardless because having strong healers on top of strong damage mitigation for an entire group means fights drag out unsatisfyingly long.

Do you remember prot paladins and Light of the Protector? I can’t remember what expansion that was but it, too, got nerfed after prot paladins start out-healing healers due to a very resource-efficient heal on a short cooldown. I wanna say that’s legion but I’m not sure tbh, it was obviously gutted. A few prot paladins managed to break 2400, but that’s arenas and we’re not talking about arenas. We’re talking about battlegrounds.

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

Did they become monstrous in PVP or did streamers start crying and Blizz catered? Since you’re so keen on citation, how about you fill us in on all the times tanks have made it to AWC and how many times they have won. Then feel free to show us how many times a Rogue, Mage, Lock, or any Healer made it, and how many times they won. Then muster up all the integrity you can and tell me which specs were truly deserving of nerfs.

If you are now angling for tanks to be included in arena, which we aren’t/haven’t been discussing at all btw please at least try to keep up, then my thought is this:

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

It’s not gonna happen bro. It would require a complete overhaul of how WoW PvP works to make tanks fit into a regular meta. As it stands they are only meme spec’d into rated content when they’re ridiculously overpowered and that’s usually by accident and fixed shortly after. Usually.

You’ve argued your emotional position about as much as you can, the game’s history and mechanics does not support the things you expect out of a tank in its current iteration of PvP. Buffing tanks will not solve this problem, it never has. It requires a ground-up overhaul beginning with queueing, how teams are comprised, and adjusting the objectives in BGs to better facilitate gameplay in which a tank has more value than simply being difficult to kill.

[Octofury-sargeras]

Brothers do not support tanks in pvp or this human

[Photonfervor-ravencrest (Photonfervor)]

@Fjorgen-moon-guard

Buffing tanks will not solve this problem, it never has. It requires a ground-up overhaul beginning with queueing, how teams are comprised, and adjusting the objectives in BGs to better facilitate gameplay in which a tank has more value than simply being difficult to kill.

@Photonfervor-ravencrest

I feel like this is just a cop out for people who refuse to let go of their bias against tanks or just are severely lacking in critical thinking skills.

I’m sorry a tank with vengeance stacks gave you PTSD 15 years ago. It was a terrible PVE mechanic and was removed from the game altogether. With therapy and time, you too can move past this and come to accept that tanks are players who deserve to enjoy the game like the rest of the player base.

It doesn’t require a complete overhaul. Even simple numerical increases to damage and durability can improve the situation. But there is also plenty of room for creative design to improve the situation.

When there is empirical evidence that tanks are underperforming, there’s no reason (other than your PTSD) that tanks shouldn’t be improved in some manner to allow them to be more competitive. I just hope that Blizz will do the right thing rather than continue to coddle those still whimpering over PVE things that haven’t been in the game for over a decade.