I’ve seen guardian druids hold of multiple people on seething shore nodes, ended up winning due to the tank stalling them.
its crazy how much this is said by people who don’t play tank but never said by people who do… most are people who play tank in all content and probably across multiple games; or prefer the tank spec playstyle significantly more than dps/healer. tanks generally don’t have to subscribe to cc script gameplay, builder cross spenders, proc/cdr rotations, or their entire spec revolving around a big button. they’re more consistent, which is refreshing.
1 Like
Just hit Rival on my horde BDK. Usually go for 1800+ in solo shuffle and/or solo BGs for the transmog on one of my BDKs. I think the weapon enchant is at 2k? I don’t always get that one, but BDK is what I enjoy playing, and Blizzard lets me queue. You’re not lying about the toxic whispers though
This is partially true. Most tanks I see in PvP are people in fresh honor gear or PvE gear and they go tank because they are too squishy in dps/healer gear. So they magically think going tank spec will somehow make them viable through improved survivability (which obviously actually makes them worse with the extra damage taken).
However, tanks who are geared and know what they are doing can be very useful. I can play all 3 roles pretty well, tank is just niche in that I can do objectives better than most by spinning or distracting the enemy team (a bad team that dedicates like 3-6 people to killing one tank), running flags with less support and by peeling and disrupting in team fights. Most tanks that queue admittedly are not good at doing these things, the ones that are are leftovers from the Rated BG days where every group had a tank.
That’s a bad team that dedicates half of them to fighting the tank instead of ignoring them.
2 Likes
I play tank because I have terrible reaction time and need precious seconds to determine what button to press. 
This is also why I don’t do rated, too many people don’t like tanks on their team and I don’t need that kind of toxicity in my game so I stick to ebgs where I feel much more useful guarding objectives without much sacrifice of dps.
1 Like
Sir I will have you know that I am quite confident, maybe even overconfident, that I am not useful.
Seriously though my tank passion was born from Flag Carrying in vanilla and when Guardian became a thing it was just a natural fit. The thrill of the chase was my addiction. Then it turned into a happy little accident that I could go to a node and hold it from being taken until my team arrived or I could go somewhere else and cause enough of a ruckus that they other team had to allocate more manpower to my location and help my team in the process.
It has nothing to do with being unkillable, or being a live-lord or even a “troll”. When I PvP’d as Guardian it was to add usefulness and utility to my team. When RBG’s was a thing I had a gear set for all 4 roles. Druid’s seem to draw players that like to fill the utility knife role.
2 Likes
Part of the issue, IMO, is the community. People always remember how horrible it was to fight a Tank, but also conveniently forget all the times it was great to have said Tank on their side. The result of this one-sided negative memory, with all the whining and complaining that follows from it, is that Tanks are made progressively weaker - which ironically enough benefits no one.
It’s a design problem that the devs have yet to solve; after all, it’s never really been made clear what a Tank’s role is in PVP. That said, I don’t think the appropriate response is to exclude them from PVP - not least of all when they are an integral part of WoW’s trinity of roles - i.e.: Tank, Healer, DPS. Of course, I can certainly appreciate the difficulty of the design problem.
While we’re at it, we might as well address the myth of Tanks being “EZ-mode” in PVP. Just because Tanks are a bit more durable than DPS doesn’t mean it’s easy to play one effectively in PVP. Think about:
- Tanks are a bit more durable than DPS; however, that durability has been nerfed many times over now with no compensation
- Tanks do no significant damage outside of incredibly predictable “Burst” windows (if a Tank is surprising you with its “Burst,” that’s a skill issue)
- Anytime Tanks are good at something and have some niche usefulness (e.g.: BDK kidnapping), people whine and complain about it until the devs nerf it into non-existence
- Most Tanks are incredibly strong against physical damage but also incredibly weak against magical damage - so weak, in fact, that a couple casters, playing at range, can safely nuke a Tank without even breaking a sweat
- To make matters worse, Tanks have to deal with a toxic, contradictory community that wants them to both suck and not suck, all at once
- Outside of occasionally FCing/base-sitting, what all can they contribute to BGs?
- Worse still, what all can they contribute to Arenas?!
It most certainly is not “EZ mode” playing a Tank in PVP. Just because they’re more durable than a DPS means diddly-squat. Great. It’s harder to die, perhaps - but it’s also harder to actually contribute anything. It’s definitely harder to play a Tank well in PVP than most people realize. Tank players shouldn’t be despised for enjoying the Tank role; in fact, those who can make it work - despite all the design defects - are deserving of a certain measure of respect.
Honestly, what I’d like to see in Midnight is for to devs to strip DPS of micro-CC, while leaving oodles of CC in for Tanks (heck, give them more), giving them a much needed role in PVP - i.e.: survivable CC bots that specializing in controlling fights - kind of like what they already do in PVE. Between this and a tweak or two to their modifiers, they might actually be in a good spot for once.
The problem really does boil down to their lack of a role (a design issue). Even as FCs and base-sitters, they’re not that good. It’s time for this to change.
#MakeTanksGreatAgain
1 Like
Same. Tanks are the OG flag carrriers. It’s insanity that we’ve reached a stage of the game where healers do everything better than tanks.
Discipline priests outdamage tanks.
Mistweaver monks, resto druids and preservation evokers are better flag carriers.
And healers don’t ever die and most of them have very good CC or can escape CC for a prolonged period of time, so they can defend a point with ease.
And while doing all that, if their teammates are nearby they can top up their entire team while doing so.
And then when tanks ask for some love, and I’m not asking for tanks to be overpowered. They don’t need to do damage, they just need to be able to do their roles. If that role is to prevent people from getting damage, or to never die in order to defend a point, then that is a role. And I’d love for that to be what tanks are in PvP.
The argument about people moaning that ‘tanks never die’ is ridiculous. First of all, because a majority of classes in the game right now can just oneshot a tank. And second of all, has anyone ever moaned about a dps doing damage? No, they haven’t. Because that’s their entire role. REEE! HEALERS ARE HEALING THEIR TEAM!!! Duh, that’s their role. But no, tanks cannot do what they are designed to do. Because god forbid the players who play tanks have fun.
But as usual… world of warcraft forums are filled with fascists. 
Because every single time somebody has an opinion that they disagree with, they become toxic and spread lies, like ‘tanks are played by people who aren’t confident they’d be useful playing anything else’. If healing was more fun and I didn’t have to carry the flag as a healer in bg blitz, I’d be a healer. Because I used to enjoy healing too, when it was about healing… But healing is not fun right now.
In midnight it might be fun, who knows. They are making a lot of changes that make healing more fun, at least I think it will be. Less planning and more responding. But we will just have to see.
1 Like
This for a topic in my guild discord/discussion.
https://imgur.com/a/vyUBekb
I know this is a BG forum and a snapshot from an Arena setting (recent AWC). If that Priest was a Prot Warrior and was doing that on the damage meter the PvP community would riot but since it is a healer, they were just “playing aggressive”.
1 Like
Exactly that. Lol. I love discipline priest and next to DH, priest is my main. But even I think it’s insane they do this much damage. And it’s been like this for a little while now. Tanks would’ve been nerfed double by now.
That’s not true. They can adjust more than just one thing (survivability), you know.
Such a wonderful community - and then people wonder why PVP is struggling.
“Hey, I have a bright idea: let’s start excluding people from PVP! Maybe that’ll bring more people into PVP?”
While we’re getting rid of Tanks, let’s bring in the anti-Healer crowd and see if we can’t get Healers removed as well.
Better yet, only Rogues and Mages can queue. Every other DPS is just “Griefing.”
You know what? Nobody queues. Remove PVP, altogether.
Going down the road of exclusion is a slippery slope.
That’s not true. Most Tank players I know play Tanks because they genuinely enjoy the role. It isn’t their fault that the devs still haven’t figured out what to do with Tanks in PVP 20+ years deep.
That’s because people just assume playing a Tank in PVP is easy. They conflate durability, or survivability, with easiness. Just being able to live means very little.
1 Like
Like make them do next to zero damage? Tanks are impossible to balance due to the very nature of tanks. They are designed to be near immortal in pve.
It has nothing to do with excluding tanks just because. The want for excluding them is because they ruin it for everyone else. No one in RSS wants a tank in their lobby. Because they either do too much damage and control while being un-killable or they are useless.
Also, keeping tanks out of rated PvP is only going to help PvP. The amount of people who would quit if it was a tank meta is greater than the number of players wanting to tank PvP.
They already do next to zero damage.
What’s really funny is that people complain that Tanks do too much damage when they’re fighting against them, and then complain that Tanks do too little damage when they’re grouped up with them.
That’s not remotely true.
They could be designed better (for PVP). That is also entirely within the realm of possibilities.
This is a highly subjective take - which is also probably why the devs have never really listened to it. Tanks in PVP are still a thing, and they aren’t going anywhere either.
Instead of asking for them to be excluded, or made increasingly useless (which affects everyone adversely), we should be all working towards making Tanks better in PVP. Unless we can all come together, sit down, and get creative about the Tank role in PVP, this’ll just be an ongoing issue. I mean, it’s already been 20+ years. It’s clear the devs are uncertain about what to do - which is understandable. It’s also clear that the devs are not going to be excluding Tanks. Let’s get some constructive ideas going. Let’s help make Tanks something the community would actually want in PVP; otherwise, sit down and shut it - whining and complaining isn’t helping.
People aren’t avoiding PVP because Tanks exist.
…
Who said anything about being “Meta?” Absolutely fried anti-Tank take.
Apparently, asking to be made useful - to have a clearly defined role, a clearly defined identity - is asking to be “Meta.”
It happens so often.
1 Like
What’s the purpose of tanks in world of warcraft? They are designed to take the damage from mobs and keep mobs on them instead of their party, and as a result of that roll they have a lot of tools to keep them and their party alive.
There are no NPC mobs in PvP. There is nothing to “tank” in arena. Trying to balance a tank whose job it is to take damage from NPCs around taking damage from players is impossible.
My point about meta is the same issue I had with augmentation, if content is designed around having them, then it becomes a detriment to not have one. If PvP is designed around having a tank and their toolkit for team survivability, not having one becomes an issue.
You could make the same argument about healers. What’s the purpose of a healer? Their role is to keep their team alive, not to deal damage, carry flags, or endlessly crowd control the enemy. Yet healers have tools to do all those things. By your logic, we should strip healers of everything that doesn’t fit their “intended” PvE role.
Tanks used to have a clear purpose in PvP too. They were great flag carriers and defensive anchors before the community collectively decided healers should take over that role. The issue isn’t that tanks don’t belong in PvP, it’s that the community (and at times, Blizzard) has treated them as if they shouldn’t.
The current WoW PvP mindset is very simplistic: if something can’t be killed easily, it’s “not fun.” Tanks being durable somehow equals “bad gameplay.” But that same logic falls apart when you realize that skilled healers can be just as unkillable. The difference is that players accept it because healers fit the traditional PvP meta.
Blizzard could easily design tanks in a way that makes them viable and interesting without breaking PvP balance. Like healers, a tank in capable hands should be extremely hard to kill, but still punishable if they mismanage their cooldowns. Tanks could also bring meaningful utility. For instance, temporarily redirecting damage from a teammate or reducing incoming damage for allies. Some tanks already have this, a lot of them don’t.
As for damage output, tanks are already fine where they are. In most battlegrounds, I’m near the bottom of the damage charts, which makes sense. Yet despite strong self-healing, certain DPS specs can still delete me in seconds, five globals from a MM hunter can erase my 36000k health bar if I don’t have a healer pressing his cooldowns on me. That doesn’t sound like an “unkillable” role to me.
With Midnight, Blizzard seems to be shifting away from bursty damage windows toward more consistent damage, which will benefit healers and hopefully tanks as well. If defensive cooldowns are adjusted so healers regain more control, tanks might finally have space to fill their intended role again.
And honestly, the complaints about tanks don’t hold up. A tank carrying a flag is slow (outside of Guardian, Brewmaster, or Vengeance), still needs a healer, and can die easily if that healer is pressured or CC’d or they hold the flag for too long. That dynamic actually encourages teamwork, something PvP desperately needs more of.
Meanwhile, some healers can carry flags completely solo, zooming across the map while self-healing and shielding, often before the enemy team even has time to respond. Yet tanks get criticized for doing a far less efficient version of that same job.
Tanks holding an objective alone isn’t overpowered either, one CC and objective is capped and since they lack the damage to kill attackers, they cannot cap it back alone. At best, they stall the enemy briefly, which is their intended form of team support.
DPS players focus on killing, tanks focus on defending and enabling. Both roles are essential. Dying in PvP isn’t fun, but it’s part of the game, just as surviving should be part of it too. If we remove everything that frustrates the other side, we end up with a hollow version of PvP where nothing meaningful happens. Imao.
And yes, there are fewer tanks in PvP, but that’s not because people don’t want to play them, it’s because right now, there’s little reason to. Give tanks a meaningful role again, and players will happily play tanks again too.
And what are we even complaining about? It’s 1 tank per team per battleground. I’ve had battlegrounds where we had 2 mistweaver monks as healers and they would rotate flag caps. Pure insanity. Yet you people would likely argue that’s totally normal and okay.
EDIT: Just a sidenote, you’re talking arena. But we’re in the battlegrounds subforum. We’re talking battlegrounds.
Tanks aren’t tanks in pvp. They’re disruption support specs.
They can’t be tanks because you’re in a game mode designed around killing players, while playing a spec that’s designed to NOT DIE.
It doesn’t work.
So they’re nerfed to “hard to kill cc bot”.
A good Blood DK can pull a healer across the map and keep them there forever. It’s hilarious
While I fundamentally agree with most of what you wrote, and as a person who plays tanks in BGs fairly regularly, one thing I will say is they have to be careful not to make tanks too viable. The reason for this being that if they became more popular from being redesigned / buffed you’d end up in matches that stalemate / tie a lot because there wouldn’t be enough damage going out to kill anything.
I support that tanks need to take more damage in PvP than in PvE just so they could be killed at some point, my favourite tank right now is warrior when played well due to:
-
offence: pretty good AoE damage in mountain thane, decent single target if specced into execute talents.
-
defence: good self-sustain healing, but where they really shine is smoothing out burst with ignore pain.
-
Support: excellent, with demoralizing shout you can reduce an enemies team damage by 30% most of the time, thats invaluable in today’s burst meta world. Also intervene on healers vs melee cleaves to redirect damage and provide damage reduction is great.
-
Utility: with aoe snares / roots, multiple stuns, an aoe fear, multiple kicks for casters and gap closers galore they have some of the strongest utility of all of the tanks right now.
-
Weakness: with the removal of spell block they can be pretty weak to casters, especially mages and evokers who can’t be locked down easily. Also a little on the mobility front, other than heroic leap they really don’t have any way of speeding up unless there are enemies or allies close by to charge/intervene to.
The reason I highlight warrior is that it might be the most balanced tank class serving its “intended role” that exists in PvP right now, if they took some lessons from them for other tanks in PvP on smoothing out incoming damage and not relying as heavily on yoyo self healing (looking at you blood dks) you might see more variety in people queuing tanks.
All that being said I’ll go back to my statement above, they have to be careful not to overdo it. A BG full of tanks and healers would ultimately ruin BGs because no one would ever die and objectives would be very difficult / near impossible to do. It’s a fine balancing act and neither side of the argument would be happy one way or the other; if they made them better they’d have to put limits on the number of tanks allowed in a BG at one time to counteract their potential popularity.
1 Like
If you wanted to stretch yes, but in pvp, healers do in fact fulfill their role by keeping their teammates alive. All the other stuff was added to try to balance pvp and make classes more engaging.
Hardly. The issue with tanks is pvp is balanced around 3v3. They aren’t going to balance wow pvp based on the want of tanks in battlegrounds.
No they couldn’t. Due to the design purpose of tanks. You are looking at this in a 1v1 situation. You have to look at in the format of 3v3. You say “a tank in capable hands should be extremely hard to kill” now put that in an arena. You now remove a kill target, and add ANOTHER set of cd’s to the mix.
Again, they are never going to balance pvp around battlegrounds.
They do when you consider blizzard doesn’t balance pvp around battlegrounds.
Yep, now add in the mix a tank that can do this and it just gets even worse, because you now have someone “a tank in capable hands should be extremely hard to kill” gettign healed by someone also extremely hard to kill.
Not in PvP
Tanks are designed around pve, the very nature of the spec is designed for pve.
Again man, you keep coming back to battlegrounds. They don’t balance pvp around battlegrounds.
Let me try to explain again my true core issue:
If they design pvp around having tanks in pvp, not having one on your team means you lose. There is no happy medium, it works exactly like pve. Pve is designed around having a tank, you can’t run M+ or raid without a tank, the same would happen in pvp if they made them viable.