Where is the math for that? I would like to read it.
Here’s against 3 target dummies, 90s (2 Bestial Wrath cooldown periods, I stopped when it came back up again):
https://i.imgur.com/AH6HX7B.png
https://i.imgur.com/D18AAbu.png
Edit: that was with no CDs except Bestial Wrath, just maintaining Frenzy, maintaining Beast Cleave, and casting Kill Command as it was up.
Of those, Faultline’s Beast Cleave, Attack, Smack, Stomp, Kill Command, and the minor contribution from Bestial Wrath’s on-use AoE are flagged as “pet damage” and leech heal the pet, while everything else heals me.
That was a total of 153.3k damage in 90s, or ~1703 DPS sourced from my pet. My pet leeches 15% due to Predator’s Thirst + Aspect of the Beast, so that’s 255.45 HPS.
By comparison, here’s my Spirit Beast’s heal on itself:
https://i.imgur.com/DwtxtzS.png
That’s 4945, on a 30s CD, so 164.83 HPS, substantially behind the leech. And remember, that leech was on only 3 targets (because that’s all the more they have clustered together in the Night Fae covenant area), while Beast Cleave scales up to a total of 6 targets, and Stomp is entirely uncapped.
Tenacity also gets +5% healing from Mend Pet due to the higher max HP, but Clefthooves, which is what I use (and is recommended to use) on the Ferocity side, have an Exotic ability that decreases physical damage taken by 10% and increases all healing (including leech) received by 20%.
So in raw healing, that bumps my clefthoof’s leech healing up to 306.54, nearly double what Spirit Mend can output, and that’s on only half as many targets as it can hit. It also bumps Mend Pet’s healing to 14.3% higher than it is on a Tenacity pet. And relative to physical damage taken, due to their DR aura, the leech is actually more than twice as strong (207%), against 3 targets, as Spirit Mend, and Mend Pet is 127% as strong as it is for the Tenacity pet.
So ya, there’s no question at all that a clefthoof can tank way more incoming damage than a Spirit Beast could ever hope to, especially since a Spirit Beast lacks a damage reduction family ability.
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In response to your discussion of Scalehide vs Turtle for MM, I did the same testing (using a Wolf, but the healing from Leech is the same for all Ferocity pets, we already know if you want a tanky Ferocity as MM/SV you get either Scalehide or Gorilla, and I didn’t feel like going to the Stable Master).
MM pets (given my gear level, and this is the same for Ferocity and Tenacity) deal 14.6k damage over 60 seconds. That translates to 243.33 (repeating of course) DPS, or 24.333 HPS from Leech.
Meanwhile, my Tenacity pet has 21.6k HP, so it takes half of that from Mend Pet over 10 sec, or 10.8k. 216 per tick, every 2s.
My Ferocity pet has 18.6k HP, so it takes half of that from Mend Pet over 10 sec, or 9.3k. 186 per tick, every 2s.
That’s a delta of +30 per tick for Tenacity, so +15 HPS.
Assuming you have Mend Pet up 100% of the time, you get an additional 15 HPS with Tenacity from Mend Pet, compared with an additional 24 HPS with Ferocity from Leech.
Scalehide is the clear winner for MM, albeit by an exceedingly narrow margin. I’m not going to repeat the test for SV, but since SV pets use Kill Command and benefit from Mastery, the delta is going to be larger.
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Hmm that’s not what I said. My first post was this:
And this is the healing I get from that macro:
https://i.imgur.com/hmKC8FH.jpg
So I’m still not convinced since I’m seeing in your picture that Geri is only doing 759 a tick.
Edit: Hmm my Spirit Mend isn’t even showing up there. How did you get it to show up? Are you using an addon?
Ok I figured it out:
https://i.imgur.com/jaXeO8F.jpg
So with my macro my pet is doing 2600 heals per tick every 30 seconds. Are you saying that leech is still better than that?
There really is zero question, ferocity pets, especially a clefthoof, blows spirit mend self cast on pet out of the water. The other thing to keep in mind that spiritmend is on a 30 second CD. Stronger and or more enemies will end up requiring more than the extra heal once every 30 seconds as it’s not up consistently enough.
I will give a clefthoof a try and will admit I’m wrong if it turns out to be better but as of now I’m still not convinced. I’ve never had a problem pulling big groups or elite mobs with my spirit beast.
Don’t get me wrong, a spirit beast isn’t bad. Certainly not the worst and it used to be one of our better options depending on the fight. Turtles and spirit beast used to be the defacto soloing pet for current dungeons and raids. Turtles for heavier hitting bosses, and spiritmend was best for supplemental healing on the hunter usually but was versatile since it can also heal itself.
But the difference in healing via leech blows it out of the water with aspect of the beast, the damage reduction from clefthoof, and the increased healing clefthoof receives due to its passive. The leech is also helping to keep you the hunter alive which helps fill the role spiritbeast used to fill.
I tend to enjoy soloing current expansion dungeon and raid bosses, though the information Kaedys posted above is also accurate for general world content, fighting elites, etc.
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Like I said, I’m giving it a try. I think I’ll enjoy the experiment since I pulled out my Nakk the Thunderer to trigger people.
Your pet has 18,600 HP, which means Tenacity adds 930 HP. Mend Pet heals half of that, 465, every 10s, or 46.5 HPS. That’s nearly double the gain of the leech.
Edit: also, your Mend Pet numbers are off by an order of magnitude. Mend Pet heals 10% of the pet’s HP every tick. 186 would be 1%.
Yes, but 95.2% of that Mend Pet healing happens on a Ferocity pet as well. The only loss is from Spirit Mend and from the loss of the +5% max HP bonus to Mend Pet.
So yes:
That’s precisely what I’m saying, because that 2600 isn’t unique to the Spirit Beast, only those 567 Spirit Mend ticks are.
Edit: the other part is that the leech healing from Ferocity is entirely passive. Your pet keeps itself alive through quite a bit without any additional effort on your part, just as a product of your normal DPSing. If the damage gets higher, you start weaving in Mend Pet, just like with your Tenacity pet. The difference is that you don’t have to use Mend Pet in lower damage situations, because the pet has passive healing by default, and the pet’s total capacity for incoming damage without dying is massively higher, due to the stronger healing from the leech, the clefthoof exotic DR and healing bonus passive, and the pet’s triggered defense serving as an emergency backstop.
Edit2: oh, and the leech healing quasi-scales with incoming damage, in that it scales with target count (up to 6). Which means as you pull more, your pet also passively heals more.
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I’m a MM Hunter and would appreciate some reassurance. When soloing, I’ll come across an elite mob from time to time where it absolutely helps if I pull out a tank. What is the best pet for this type of situation?
I really have no interest in consistently using a pet, I don’t enjoy it, I’m not going to role-play anything with a pet, I don’t want to use a pet in most other situations, blah blah. I just want a pet I can whip out when I need a tank. Anyone able to directly tell me what I should go tame as an exclusive MM Hunter? Thank you, I appreciate the community here!
Scalehide or Turtle.
Turtle gives you and the pet more health and a DR cooldown.
Scalehide gives you and the pet 10% Leech and Bloodlust.
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Sorry to be annoying with the questions, I’m a novice hunter. When you say “Scalehide or Turtle” that means I’m safe to go anywhere in the game and tame a pet that meets that criteria and I’m good to go? I don’t need to go to a specific place and get a specific pet?
Correct. Pick the one with the appearance you like best. Scalehide includes the Mushan from Oandaria, Stegodons (Thunder Lizards) from Un’Goro and a few other places, and the Ankylodons from Zuldazar. Turtles have dozens of different skins all over the place.
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Thank you, I appreciate the replies.
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BTW, excellent index of all pet skins and models, broken down by pet family, including links to their Wowhead page (and thus a map of their location(s) and comments on taming them, if relevant):
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