Can we please stop designing talent trees to be a split between Single Target and AOE. It is highly annoying that we have to have ST and AOE builds. Why do we have to have be limited and have soo many extra talent nodes unable to be selected. Seems wasteful. Why not just let us select every talent node? Thats what is cool about hero talent trees. We select every node and the player choice is the multiple selection nodes. Make talent trees like that. It doesnt make sense that we have to choose between ST and AOE builds. We need both in all forms of content.
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The point of going back to talent trees was to bring more player choice into builds.
If we were able to get every single node and the only choice was the dual nodes, then we’d basically be back at MoP talent trees with extra steps and even less choice.
It’s one of the few things in this game that’s the RPG side of things. The MMO nature means we need to be able to respec for different content, but one is still expected to make choices about what they want their character to be good at in the moment.
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Because there’s not much point in making choices if you can just choose every choice.
Having a choice is all but an illusion. There is definitely meta builds in the game which everyone chooses. Lets not pretend no one is using Wowhead, murloc IO, Icy veins, or any website that gives you talent builds. Im not talking about the class tree. Im talking aobut the spec tree. In the grand scheme of it all you are either choosing ST or AOE which is soooo dumb.
Mythics have bosses which you need ST and trash mobs which is AOE. Same thing in raids. In battlegrounds or arenas you have situations that are either ST or AOE. Soo you pretty much need both types of dps in basically all forms of content and here we are having to choose between them?? Its a stupid choice. I want both to be equally powerful. Its like choosing between food or water. You need both.
You cannot sit here and tell me its good gameplay. You cant even change talents during mythic keys. Having to change talents between trash mobs and Bosses in raids is annoying, and having to change them for each boss fight is just dumb.
This is the player choice you guys want?
Why does any game offer build customization ever then? If your complaint is that metas exist, sorry to say you won’t escape that ever. Even if you leave WoW.
From a competitive perspective, the purpose of talents isn’t just to customize your build to suit your personal taste, but also to give you the tools that will be most useful for the content you’re doing. You picked out the obvious choice of ST vs. AoE, but I have 3 or 4 different talent sets for different raid bosses. Some are more low target cleave than true AoE, some have bursts of AoE but are otherwise single target. Some fights have short damage up phases where burst damage becomes wildly more valuable. I have different spec tree setups for all these scenarios (and that’s not even mentioning the class tree changes I make like subbing Remove Corruption in and out or taking out Innervate on farm fights). Despite what you imply, you don’t need both ST and AoE in every single fight.
And yes, some of it is still personality. Sometimes a mathematically optimal choice is close enough to a different option that you’re not really going to see much of a difference if you choose the option you prefer.
That’s intentional. When do you get your loot in M+ vs. raid? At the end instead of every boss. An entire M+ dungeon is a single encounter. You’re intended to pick one toolset for the entire encounter and choosing to be good at one area means you sacrifice the ability to be good at another. That is in fact, the entire point of talents. Your option of simply getting everything is no better. There’s no choice if there’s nothing to give up.
I can but I doubt you’ll listen. Your tone strikes me as someone who won’t take any amount of discussion seriously. You’re just here to tell everyone else they’re wrong. I could type absolute gibberish for all it matters, your response would be just the same. But for the sake of other people wandering into this thread who are actually interested in a back and forth discussion…
Yes I find it to be interesting gameplay to customize your toolkit in response to the threats you expect to face and I don’t think that gameplay is diminished by a mathematically correct option existing. Customizable talents aren’t something WoW invented and in nearly every game that features them, there’s a “correct” choice. One wonders then how such a design feature has persisted in spite of that. If nothing else I do think it provides a good opportunity for skill expression since despite what you seem to think, guides are not universally the best option. Sometimes it pays to deviate from the guides and the best players do in specific situations.
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Man you are all misunderstanding what I was trying to say.
I gave a bad example of saying let us select every node. My apologies.
I was not trying to say take away choices that offer mobility, defensives, burst, sustain, or personality type choices that the trees offer. I like that about talent trees. What i dont like is them making us choose between ST and AOE. We can have both and still have choices in the talent trees between mobility, defensives, burst, sustain and what not.
What I am trying to say is for them to design talent trees in which we pick what we like and gives us a complete tool kit that offers both ST and AOE so we don’t have to keep switching our builds back and forth between encounters.
Why do we have to sacrifice between the two? That is not a choice that i as a player want to make. Its a video game I dont want to be sacrificing between ST and AOE. That doesnt make the game more fun. Having to change my build for every encounter doesnt make the game more fun. Having 1 build in which I choose talents that I like and that makes my character complete more powerful and having answers for all situations in the game sounds amazing.
You can 100% have both and still have all the choices between mobility, defensives, burst, sustain, and everything else. I would much rather change a few talents points here and there then to change entire builds because one fight is more ST then AOE.
Ive seen people that change builds between Boss fights and trash mobs in raids. That has nothing to do with player choice. That is just changing builds to talents the player choose that do more AOE. Its pointless all you are doing is swapping between ST and AOE.
Im not saying get rid of customization. Im talking about the inconveniences of having to choose between ST and AOE. No player wants to choose between the two. They just want both
PLease dont be that guy that says he wouldnt be happy to have both…