My god, the amount of obvious anger at a person who clearly is offended by comprehension that is oppose to his/her narrow opinion. Continuing to reference potentially incomplete and bias (based on how it’s uploaded) third-party website.
You’re just getting frustrated by a person making a point that you disagree with. And because you can’t really make a real counterpoint: You’re resorting to name-calling and referencing other sources – that we’re already aware exist. As far as “skill-issue”, as I said, my logs are definitely incomplete. But don’t get me wrong I like how logs work now.
I am arguing about fundamental design. You’re mad because it’s about the essential principles of why the trees were brought back with two-points nodes instead of all one points. Furthermore, your insulting of me just proves how “toxic” someone who is desperate to snuff out any relevant opposing views can be. In the name of whatever, most likely, narrow vision you have about how a player should be considering themselves in reference to the game systems. If they should have to defer to this website or the other. That a player could make choices that elude your critic, that’s what upsets you the most. I’m sure of it.
I’m sorry, what data do you have to support your claim.
I mean everyone in this thread disagrees with you. And other people have pointed out that you’re trying to win an argument rather than argue a well thought out concept that considers how it works in practice.
The skill issue comment has nothing to do with your parses as its not fit to judge you on parses for a few reasons; anybody dogging you for your parses are just as dumb as your “utility” take. Your statements about overcapping maelstrom being such a significant issue is where the skill issue comment is aimed since it quite literally remedied by better play.
References to your logs is specifically looking at talent tree setups. You claim a utility in only specing one point yet I see no evidence of it.
I can call you dumb while being perfectly happy. Your take is fundamentally dumb, flawed, and holds no bearing in reality. I understand where you’re coming from but taking a utilitarian view point, it harms more players than it benefits. You need to understand that point. You have to take a grounded approach when thinking about things. How this play out with other classes? Would this have a significant impact on balance if they decide to allow us to make overly broken builds? That last example would lead to specs literally not functioning unless you took a significant amount of active abilities.
Just consider for a moment that Frost DK has 4 2 point nodes yet they are still able to run both BoS AND Obliteration. Imagine your concept works with pathing, would that make the spec better? What if Blizzard decides “yeah yall can do that” then balance Frost around them NEEDING to play both BoS and Obliteration. Does that make the game better for the whole of the playerbase. Its the same thing as not balancing/designing the game around the top 10% of the playbase but in reverse; don’t balance/design the game around the bottom 10%.
This is why I said you lack the capcity to have this discussion about design. You’ve been taking a hyper ego centric viewpoint with only Ele, not considering the other specs or let alone how this plays with other Classes.
I suppose that any player that doesn’t string together a bunch of potential bias data from third party websites doesn’t have a very well thought out argument. And again, that is not what I am arguing against.
Your counter argument is simply: “might makes right”.
No. If that was my argument I’d be flaming you for playing lightning builds despite the current tier set exclusively favors/forces Fire Builds. The logic being why are intentionally playing something objectively worse. I’m not and would not because that issue is due a design decision to force build via tier sets which I disagree with. Do you understand the difference?
It’s not about might, its about gameplay, balance, how it impacts the community. Changes and decisions aim to serve the most amount of players across different levels. Your argument is hyper focused on a small portion of the player base playing a singular spec with the main load of your argument being focused on a singular scenario related to a playing badly due to skill issue while playing a singular build of a spec. Little to no External Validity. Yet you want this to apply to the whole of the player base.
And we didn’t need to look at WCL to tell your take is cooked and flawed.
Yeah its dumb and they should be removed. There should not be any multi point options IMO. If you want more options, design the tree better allowing for more pathing and different talents.
What you compiled is irrelevant. You are also assuming those are good things which this whole thread disagrees with you. THE DEVS disagree with you given what they did to other specs.
It’s spiteful and not balance that Elemental Shaman is the only class/spec combo that doesn’t have multiple point talents. You reference balance but can’t even make a baseline call on a system being asymmetrical and ergo imbalanced.
Thats assuming that 2 points are valuable, which again they are not (this is why we’re calling you crazy). They are literally just used to prevent players from taking too many talent point in poor designed trees. Go look at all those trees you listed and look at the 2 point node and path through them with only taking 1 point in them. CBA with your dumb “one point is enough to path through” thing because they’d sooner bring back weapon skills before they would do that. Go about this actually considering whats going on in reality and not this weird fantasy you have.
Consider that OTHER specs and classes want what Ele has now. The Ele tree should be the standard. 2 point nodes are a crutch the devs use with poorly designed talent trees.
I would trade the “buff” away for the game system to stop creeping toward a less intricate expression of how talents could work, and have worked in the past.
This is where I’m going to call you a glue sniffing idiot because Enhance is literally unable to make diverse talent choices within their respective builds + hero talents because of 2 point nodes in the tree. Once again taking a ego centric viewpoint and not considering other specs/classes.
2 point nodes literally are there to prevent overt talent choice expression. Quite literally they are causing:
Reality? A fantasy? Though, you just mean whatever isn’t in your best interest. I mean be honest with yourself, about what a fundamental point is. I’ll tell you what it isn’t: pulling from logs that are incomplete. I mean you could be able to do trigonometry in your head. But what is that going to do for you if you can’t account for where the numbers are really coming from.
“Reality” means you have to considering your suggestion with the concept that you have to invest 2 whole points into a 2 point node in order to path through it; putting only a singular point does not allow you to path. Literally nothing to do with logs.
You certainly can path around things in a lot of trees, Echoes of Great Sundering for instance. I did overlook, but I knew that you can 1/2 in some talents and path around.
That’s a lie, I am explicitly saying that the convention of how many multipoint talents there are should make sense across the board. Instead of singling out someone for playing a particular class/spec. If you didn’t have this obsession with third parties corroborating your opinion, you wouldn’t have any real counter argument besides thinking you’re better. That’s just fine but it shouldn’t affect a talent system that should, baseline, (that’s including the number of multipoints per tree) be balanced and neutral.
You keep going on about needing consistent design in terms of symmetry and talent point count across all trees as this apparent holy grail of game design, which makes it really hilarious that you’re so scared of going back to MoP talents which are the only time in the entire history of the game when that has actually been achieved.