Can you blame them? Humans elf’s have taken land from trolls and pushed some tribes to extinction.
What humans and elf’s did to the trolls is worse then anything the horde has done to the alliance.
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You can be upset about something you expect.
Nobody on the Alliance. But it was hardly a freely made choice.
What? This sounds like headcanon.
The Zandalari would have probably fallen to the Blood Trolls without the Horde.
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If she was on pair with Jaina, then she would of killed Jaina when the alliance killed her farther.
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I wish more fans of the Horde and fans of the Alliance agreed with this general concept.
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Really because it just feels like the pants-on-head is to pander to this idea the Horde is good/Honorable or other BS to humanize them and ultimately forgive them for some unknowable reason.
Effectively making it so that the Horde is more important than Alliance itself.
How many times have you heard a Horde character lament how they are treating the Alliance? Not even once.
But those are literally the first words out of Andiun or Jaina after BfD.
The whole raid was about an Alliance strike force hitting an undefended city, kill a troll king for no discernible reason and run away as soon as the Horde arrives like cowards.
If I am supposed to be in this super powered ultimate faction that can crush the Horde like bugs. Why do I have to run away? Why isn’t it the Horde that’s running away?
The circumstances were completely different though. Jaina sought the Horde for a world ending event and then chose to stand aside for the sake of peace as Horde murdered her dad.
That took immense sacrifice for her to do and she had blamed herself ever since.
The fact that the Horde spit in her face despite her sacrifice multiple times is just icing on the cake.
Talanji made no sacrifice. Had no greater goal or aspirations. She seeked the Horde because her dad was running it into the ground.
But yeah, I guess there are some superficial parallels.
I do not see it that way at all.
Unless Lawful Good means Lawful Stupid.
Alliance loses cities and places.
Horde loses characters but really they don’t its more like they get basterdized.
The only legit character the Horde has lost is Garrosh and Cairne and they got promptly replaced later. Alliance never got any replacement or recompess while the Horde got their “Oh hey! we are totally good now”
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Which is exactly why me and the other horde players feel so good this expansion and why we all feel like the Horde came off so well, exactly like Blizzard promised when we chose the faction.
No, I’m sorry, you’re wrong. The things you are saying do not correspond to reality.
Because people play Horde, and status quo is God. Blizzard’s mistake was indulging the Alliance power fantasy to the degree that Alliance players feel entitled to Final and Permanent Victory.
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You got three frigging cinematics and the entire game is doing everything it can to backtrack everything and excuse the Horde.
What more do you want?
The Horde got a pretty frigging epic victory both at Teldrassil and Undercity.
Everything went according to your Warchief’s plan while my guys were had their fingers collectively up their own noses with drool falling off their mouths.
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I do not think Jaina showing up and freezing the blight, then teleporting the Alliance leadership out of Sylvanas’s death trap, could be described as such.
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This is the same argument as this one:
Just because you did not outright win everything does not mean everything did not go your way until the ultimate last minute.
In the end both times it was Sylvanas and the Horde that had the last laugh.
It went to her plan because she accepted the reality and made the best of the situation.
Objective wise both event were failures and both sides bleed. Players on both factions weren’t happy for different reason. Allaince feel like they didn’t get a victory while the horde players feel like they being hit by villain bat for another faction war and have to go through Mop 2.0 something they hated.
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They were always villains. If you haven’t realized that you are playing the wrong game.
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Yeah. And that’s a problem if Blizzard wants to keep telling these kinds of stories in these ways. It makes it more then a little ironic that they keep pointing back at the old games and the old faction rivalry. Because those games did end with faction being destroyed; Stormwind canonically in the first game, the Horde on Azeroth in the second along with the rest of the Horde on Draenor in the expansion. And of course WC3 saw the fall of Lordaeron and the “whole” Alliance proper etc…
You call it entitlement, I call it reading the room. If this story was being told in any other genre, RTS, RPG, FPS etc… this would be the end of the Horde. Not every last person, not every nation, not without the possibility of a return at some point, but this would be an ending. On par with what was done in the previous games. And the fact that it isn’t going to be just means everyone is getting a near constant whiff of the B.S.
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That’s not real. You’re wrong. If I sound childish, it’s because I don’t know how else to engage with people continuously parroting opinions that do not correspond to reality. Horde players hated Teldrassil and Undercity. It wasn’t what we wanted. The cinematics weren’t good enough to make up for what they did to us in Teldrassil and Undercity. There is evidence of that in these forums and on Reddit and on social media and in the people who were RPing in Ogrimmar the day that Teldrassil burned, describing their characters wandering the empty streets in a daze, rubbing soot out of their hair.
Do you think we’re lying, or do you not care?
Yeah, agreed. I think it sucks that you guys aren’t going to get the ending your story is obviously crying out for; I really, honestly do. I empathize. But I think that that’s evidence that this story never should have been told. The Alliance Faction Fantasy wants that apocalyptic, all-out war for our souls in which we must muster our power to defend ourselves from the Evil Barbarians that seek to threaten us, and it was a mistake to indulge it thus far, because Warcraft’s not that kind of game anymore and the Horde cannot be wiped out like that. Too many real people are invested in it.
Hey, look. Pheandra’s being wrong again.
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Maybe if she wasn’t busy trying to hold together a crumbling Empire with the ‘help’ of a mercurial Death God, she would have.
Thank you.
I did use the word similarities. Of course the circumstances are going to be different between a Troll priestess and a Human arch mage.
Yes, those terms tend to be interchangeable, especially when it comes to the Alliance.
What cities have you lost? South Shore? Theramore? Not exactly important hubs. Teldrassil was lost alongside Undercity so that’s balanced even if it isn’t fair.
If you think everything is hunky-dory and we got ‘replacements’ for lost characters like Carne, Garrosh, And Vol’jin you are sadly mistaken.
No one knows who is the MU Orcs racial leader right now. The theory was it was going to be Saurfang until he spent this entire expansion AWOL.
The replacement for Vol’jin? It’s not Rokhan. The Darkspear have no chieftain right now and Rokhan seems to be serving little more than an ambassadors role.
And don’t get me started on Baine. He is a pale copy of his father and has done nothing but undermine the Horde since Cataclysm.
The Horde loses characters and if they get replaced, it is with worse characters.
I’d rather lose Hillsbrad and Stonard to the Catalysm and Mists than have to sit through another Horde racial leader being sacrificed on the alter of plot progression.
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No but I think there were certainly Horde who were cheering during the scenario just as they were cheering in the novellas that Blizzard wrote as the ever victorious armies of the Horde marched through Ashenvale.
Blizzard wanted me to hate the Horde? Well mission accomplished Blizzard.
I have nothing but contempt for them.
Lost nonetheless.
Let me decide which ones are more important.
Like I said both sides lose something but different things.
My losses are caused by your faction.
Your losses are caused by your own faction. I never did anything to your faction.
Good to know we’ve descended completely into tribalism, then.
Thanks, Blizz. #itmatters, I guess.
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Lets congratulate their Marketing department.
Then why does blizzard advertise them as good guys? Or promise us something else?
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And without the Horde, all of Zandalar would have fallen to Zul and G’huun. The “lesser tribes” would soon follow, blanketing all troll lands in heretical blood worship and corruption of the Loa from Wild Gods into something sinister.
Maybe count it as a blessing in disguise.
Every freedom fighter is another country’s terrorist.
The Horde has a history of evil deeds and continues the tradition.
The only just justify it with “it’s for our survival” and that gives them all the excuses they need to do whatever they want to do. In RP anyway.
As a neutral observer you would have very little doubt about how utterly… villainous, amoral and destructive the Horde is.
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