The fact that all 3 Shaman specs share 2 of the same abilities in each spec tree is lazy and uninspiring. Put them in the left tree because they SHARE the ability and add some new flavor and more meaningful gameplay on the right trees.
8 Likes
If a player decides to ignore Ascendance and/or P.Wave in the Class tree, how do you propose Blizzard alter the spec trees to accommodate the missing perquisites?
Would Elemental and Enhancement only have DRE in their respective spec trees?
Would P.Wave still exist in the spec trees? If so, does taking it in both trees give two charges? If not, what goes in itâs place?
Absolutely not. Major throughput talents in the class tree would instantly become required picks, locking almost all of our class tree points into getting the both of them with little left over.
8 Likes
you didnât get traction on your last thread so you decided to make a new one instead of consolidating your grievances into the other thread?
why?
the shaman trees are some of the best designed trees right now, and you want to muddy them up by putting essentially mandatory talents into them?
1 Like
Iâm not a class designer and these are hefty questions. I just see an uninspired tree on one of my favorite classes and I would like more diversity between specs.
Other classes have major throughput in their class trees (DK: abom limb, DH: the hunt, Hunter: Death Chakram, Mage: Shifting power or temporal warp, Priest: Mind games and so on), so Iâm not really following. This is pretty much whatâs happening already, only difference is weâre going to be locked in in our right trees on all 3 specs. Our left tree feels like a mess and our right trees share talents, that is a fundamental flaw in the design of the tree imo.
Different context, but who cares man youâre mad that Iâm voicing my opinion in the forums or what?
Thatâs not true otherwise they wouldnât be heavily modifying Enhancementâs tree with each update. Something feels wrong with some of the talents in that tree. I wouldnât say Iâm heavily modifying anything, Iâm simply stating that itâs uninspiring and outright boring that 3 different specs share the same 2 capstone talents in the tree thatâs supposed to be unique.
idk about your wording there
i said best designed
not absolutely perfect
says who?
difference for the sake of difference doesnât mean correct
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Youâre telling me that all 3 specs having their SPEC SPECIFIC capstones be shared across the class is good?
yes
because it prevents rigid pathing in their class tree
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But that only slightly supports Ele/Resto because their trees are so much wider. Enhances options are Feral Spirits and either Ascendance or Pwave. Thatâs rigid pathing.
When basically every other class in the game gets their covenant abilities in the left tree except shaman, that just shows me the current designers have no imagination for the 3 specs. Ele could get a summon multiple elemental capstone, resto could get a water elemental capstone or something. But instead we get ascendance/pwave. Itâs boring man.
Besides, youâre worried about the class tree which is already unimportant. The right side is Enh and the left side is Resto, itâs pathing is already rigid. This is a non argument. It should be blatantly obvious what each spec is going to choose automatically in DF in the class tree.
Yeah, and they shouldnât, either, because it defeats the stated purpose of the class trees. The stated goal of the class trees was to be focused on utility, and they are abjectly failing to accomplish that for nearly every class. Poor rogues and paladins are so overwhelmingly throughput-packed that they only get to spend a tiny handful of points on actual utility talents, and which ones they can afford to access are further heavily restricted by which throughput path theyâre building on.
The shaman class tree should not be changed to be more like other class trees. Other class trees should be overhauled to be more like shamansâ.
(I mean, ideally we wouldnât be going back to the proven failure of tree-based talents at all, but failing the devs dropping this terrible idea entirely, this is the next best thing.)
4 Likes
As an enhancement, I will definitely be veering into the left side of the tree. Regularly. The âright is enhâ only factors into like 1/2 the way down. If I were to take any capstone, it would be on the far left, ancestral guidance.
3 Likes
not even a little bit correct.
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Unless ele can extend Ascendance for quite a period of time, they will not be taking it.
For non-PVP specs, Iâd honestly be surprised if anything past Natureâs Fury sees regular use. 3 mobility boosts, and a totem refresher that would be far more useful for Resto than Enhancement. Without any further damage boosts on the right side of the tree, Iâd much rather have the utility of HST and Thundershock. Weirdly, I think if Iâm taking any capstones itâll probably be Stoneskin Totem. Maybe Ancestral Guidance - either way, the right side of the tree past Natureâs Fury is dead to me.
Trading back and forth with a Resto Shaman to keep Stoneskin Totem up 100% of the time would be pretty useful for the group/raid as a whole.
Iâd agree with you about Primordial but unlike all other Cov ability it has different interaction other than Conduit and leggo and it work different way for each spec so it does deserve to be in the spec tree. For all other Cov ability that are a copy paste of SL I do agree they need to be in Class tree or bring something unique.
Why in the world would I want to take Ascendance as Elemental? Iâll be investing in my fire elemental and that side of the tree because thatâs more fun for me.
Imagine having the best class tree that just about every other class has said is fantastically made, that has 0 throughput and lets you completely choose your defensives, utility, and movement abilities, that has no real âmandatory choicesâ, and wanting to scrap that just so you can be forced into taking throughput options at the end.
Itâs like complaining that your meal is too good and you want it redone and purposely made worse.
6 Likes
I feel the class trees have no exciting choices. And is problematic on a couple fronts. Like hex being on there. On the beta right now. We donât need to take hex, if we have hex variants. Thatâs just really problematic design wise.
I would like more baseline utility across most of the classes instead of talents to learn those spells. The niche ones feel bad taking unless you actually have the niche requirements of using them in a dungeon/raid. Shaman has too much niche tools.
And windfury totem feels like one of the worst buffs in the game. Shamans have to use a talent points for there buffs? Itâs like the only class that does it for a weak buff too that only effects melee.
The class tree is very unexciting. I wish we had chain harvest or vesper totem on there instead of stoneskin/ tranq air totemâŚ
Our capstone talents feel bad. CD reset on totems? Not exciting. Earth elemental and hex should be baseline. Earth elemental is on a 5 min cd. If you use it you have to wait to swap your talents. Those long defensive cds should be baseline to avoid those issues.
A shaman complaining about his talent tree (lmao) imagines if it was a holypaladin
Shaman has what is arguably the best designed trees. The people who post on these forums⌠just wow⌠like actually arguing to get throughput talents put into the general tree. Can you be any more obtuse about what youâre asking?