I’m pretty Genn just acknowledged that #notallforsaken are bad. He still doesn’t like the horde.
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I commend you Mawthorne for taking on the task of explaining the Forsaken narrative in such detail, with examples. But sadly the people you are trying to explain it to are failing to understand the lore provided, at the same level of interest as you.
It’s a fruitless task.
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The Forsaken narrative is
Their leader was the most genocidal person in Azeroth’s history, of which the Forsaken were fanatically loyal to.
That loyalty even translates to the fanbase, who want their genocide queen to have her cake and eat to, totally unfeeling to the people that she has hurt in-universe, and the fans there of.
It is an entirely selfish thing. A recognition of why it is wrong, but a complete unwillingness to accept the consequences of. It is cowardice, childish, and in the worst cases, downright apathetic.
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As a worgen fan, I have my own issues with how blizzards been handling the story and my fav race.
As for sylvanas, it’s complicated. On one hand glad she’s coming back and that she at least admitted her crimes are unforgivable and that she’s facing some sort of judgement, not necessarily one everyone is happy with, but it’s something. On the other hand, I know lots of people feel like they got the short end of the stick again and many did
Still feel there like there’s a lot missing though. Just my thoughts on it.
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I’m still not sure how anything, including killing Malfurion, was supposed to dispirit the night elves, a people who took the Sundering on the chin and kept on trucking.
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It wasnt. Thats why a lot of people are getting tripped up. It was supposed to disrupt the Alliance enough to undermine the perfect family relationship they had. It was supposed to help to create a wound that would result in a weakening of the little a alliance. Even without Malfurion’s defeat at Darkshore, the plan could have continued as Sylvanas envisioned, at least in her mind. But the propaganda boon that was Tyrande saving Malfurion from the jaws of death was something the Alliance could rally around. The time needed for Malfurion to recover was enough to calm tempers and allow cooler heads to prevail. Fighting Malfurion to the point of death and allowing him to be saved was worse than not engaging him at all.
Given that, later on, the night elves apperantly dunked the Horde right back to Cataclysm with only the worgen backing them, it was still a mistake.
Honestly, the main way I can square the ridiculousness of BFA is that Sylvanas was trying to kill as many people as possible… and it was pretty easy to get her own soldiers killed on meat grinders like Darkshore.
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Then what is cartoonish with Tyrande & Genn being cooperative rather than antagonistic a cartoonish behavior?
First off I never went into the hypothetical of how characters WOULD have reacted but how they actually DID react. Its in the game. We see it.
How? More strained than Genn/Tyrande towards andiun?
And its not carebears to be cooperative with each other… like what are you even saying?
If you stood in that throne room for 2 more seconds you would have seen Genn say to Andiun he is wrong and commit his forces to Tyrande. Then he followed her out but according to you this is a carebears attitude.
When the truce is signed Tyrande says she will not sign anything in Banshee blood. Following that Genn tells Andiun she is right. That no scrap of parchment will stop the Horde.
Tyrande doesn’t need Genn’s permission to do anything. She doesn’t need Malfurion’s permission either. Why does every move Tyrande makes has to be signed off by Genn?
Why is her decision of jumping into the maw without his permission somehow proof that their relationship is strained?
Are you still under the impression that Sylvanas actually intended this plan to work?
This was all a lie to tell Saurfang what he wanted to hear to go along with this plan.
We know that this was all BS… Sylvanas never intended the Horde and Alliance war to conclude in a minimal loss of life with a tenous peace between both factions where Alliance is so fragmented and divided that they can’t tackle the Horde problem.
This was all lies.
She wanted to start a bloody war where both sides kill each other as much as they can with no end in sight to feed her new employer with Anima.
The reason why she failed was because of the cartoonish behavior of characters like Andiun and Jaina who could look at a character like Saurfang and instead of killing him for the gullible monster that he is they would rather join him and free the Horde who the real victims of this war for being so poorly misunderstood and mislead.
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I wonder what version of BfA maw was playing compared to the rest of us. Don’t even know where to begin
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Yes, the devs originally intended for Sylvanas to intend for the plan to work. They retconned a lot later
Then you are wrong.
If this plan actually worked then there would be no shadowlands plot. Which we know is not possible.
I dont think bringing her back is the best course of action. I think the obvious Kerrigan 2.0 was a better plot, and this seems very much like pandering to the “Argh! Not Kerrigan 2.0!” Crowd.
Whether it’s a rare case of retcons improving things or “that actually was the plan” or just a happy accident, the early parts of BFA are slightly more sensical if Sylvanas doesn’t care about winning or having a strong hand as a deterrent (regardless of what she said to Saurfang to get him onboard). She’s just there to chew bubblegum and yeet whatever souls she can into SuperHell… and no one makes the good Mana Thistle flavored bubblegum these days.
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This was the retcon, and really doesnt make sense. Azeroth is one world in an entire multiverse. Like, almost any story they could come up with would make more sense.
Ill make one up right now off the top of my head …
The true motive behind the War of Thorns was to draw out Malfurion, and send him to the Maw to be twisted into a Demigod of Death.
That covers so many bases. Like… all the bases and doesnt force us to pretend that one war between a couple nations that hardly have any troops left after Legion is going to make a difference to the Jailer.
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There are problems, like how Radomir has pointed out, there are gaps and inconsistencies in how both sides play out and how the timeline doesn’t add up. Blizzard needs to focus on lore and story consistency, expecially when dealing with multiple points of view.
At the very least our perceptions of events need to be somewhat coherent instead of the Alliance making up thier own narrative half the time because they don’t have the full picture and assume Horde are evil.
The Alliance does fabricate it’s own narrative a lot assuming the motivaions of the enemy and those motivations are usually wrong, look at the Broken Shore as a big example of this.
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Its the BFA and Shadowlands story.
You understand that these texts were written in the hopes of getting both sides riled up against each other right?
You are an adult. Think about it.
What came first in the company… the novella to hype the newest expansion or the plan for two entire expansions and their central arc.
We don’t need to make anything up. Blizzard does plenty to show the Horde as amoral as possible. Especially when it comes to the Forsaken and Orcs.
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The best explanation I’ve heard for that is that the Burning Legion wasn’t full of hot air, and there aren’t actually many inhabited planets left in the Azeroth universe.
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I generally assume most people who’re into the story play both sides. To get the whole story, and also the cool mount.
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I would assume that too but even Metzen played exclusively Alliance.
Alliance seems to be dev perference.
This reminds me. The Alliance still doesn’t know the truth about what happened at the Broken Shore.
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