Oh man, the goblin is typing! Everyone prepare to read things that no one asked for!
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âDirectionless hodgepodgeâ is one hell of a projection given the state of melee SV. Ranged SV had far more direction and coherence than any melee SV iteration.
I donât want to start any argument, I know how any discussion often (not always) ends up with you Bepples. And to call me a âTone policeâ simply for stating that I want less outrage about the bad state of the tree does not mean I donât think people can have opinions. I would like to see all peoples opinion (even yours, the few times itâs not all about how MSV is an abomination that is unforgivable and how RSV is the only opinion valuable) as long as it talks about what can be done and what is not working good etc.
Also, where in my post did you get the impression that I think/say there has not been constructive or good feedback? I literally say there has been some but Iâd like to see more. You say Tone police are the most obnoxious but you jump my post in the matter of minutes and shoot it down, trying to dictate what You want to see on here? Kind of hypocritical no?
TL;DR get down from your high horse, all I stated was that I would like to see more discussions around what can be improved and How something is bad, not just that itâs bad.
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Woho, constructive feedback at itâs finest! This is such a helpful post regarding the state of the âSurvival talent tree concernsâ⌠You literally just state that what they made is crap and that âwhat was was infinitely betterâ. No facts, no suggestions or explanations of what is bad or how to improve it.
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There are plenty of other threads Bepples can share their feedback in. This thread is for the current disparity of Survival Talent points in Dragonflight in.
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as someone on the spectrum myself i find that people who engage in similar patterns of behavior as bepples does (log onto wow forums â finds threads in the hunter forums containing opinions that he personally disagrees with â rinse and repeat) are also on the spectrum themselves
I clearly stated that I think this kind of play is boring because itâs a 2 button rotation with one fishing for procs to the other. I did not say that I would like to have the suggested build the person I replied to suggested at all. I came up with a few (probably bad ideas because you know⌠I havenât brainstormed a lot and have literally 0 experience or education in design or game developmentâŚ) suggestions that I think would be better.
Yes, Lock and load was a proc talent synergizing with a damage ability. But the ability was much better/more to the theme of hunters (arrows with a small explosion to them is better than a grenade flung at melee range IMO) but I donât think we can expect Too much out of what we have or have had. But to me itâs pretty clear the only reason people play the spec now is due to itâs power. And no I donât see how âitâs boring but strongâ can be conflicting statements? I stated itâs strong as a kind of excuse for it, despite it being boring. I doubt we will ever get this broken strong again, which made the boring part almost acceptable because at least you could perform and got invited to groups.
I and many others have already written up what can be done many times. Ghorak basically wrote up an entire spec outline thatâs better than what Blizzard came up with, talents and all. It involves going back to the only model of Survival that succeeded, BTW. Thatâs just realism.
In FF14 they heavily updated Bard in Heavensward to turn it into something largely opposed to the existing identity and audience and it turned out badly. They didnât double down on it and demand constructive feedback only adhering to their new, failed vision for the class. They got rid of it and went back to what worked.
Yes, and this is why I would like us to move Away from this ârotationâ because calling it synergy, while true, is really weak. The abilities work together for sure but itâs in such a bland and boring way itâs ridiculous if you ask me. A 2 ability rotation that is literally just âpress this focus builder until you get a damage ability procâ gets old fast. A lot of other specs have similar rotations (because as you state they need to be playable) while still making them feel good and fun.
To say that anything more than 2-3 abilities for a rotation is bloat for bloats sake is just not correct. There is plenty of rotations currently and in the past that is more than 2-3 abilities to achieve the optimal rotation.
Where did I say the traps are there for damage or a core part of the rotation? I was perhaps unclear or vague because I just threw it together but what I wanted to say was that I want traps to come back (mentioned they could work in tandem with your dps rotation) and would prefer to see them either as buffs before your dps rotation (for example as a ground effect that gives extra interaction in the rotation or added damage) or mainly as utility and/or CC.
As some already have stated. To claim that traps are hard or unenjoyable to use because they are ground effects and you need to click around and put them down and then make the mob walk over them needs to look into mouseover macro/addons and realize that simply by aiming at the mob you negate the need to move the mob over the trap. But yes, trap playstyle can be bad if excessive or too crucial (nesingwaryâs leggo is a perfect example) and is perhaps not for all. That is the good thing about a tree no? I would rather have 5 or so traps back and have a few talents to specialize in traps and having it Viable than have these massive amounts of bland talents for harpoon and Kill command.
Hunters used to have this massive amount of flexibility and adaptability in classic and on to perhaps a few expansions on. You could react to most situations with traps, the pet or your select other abilities. The class was fun to play. These days our utility is gone, our defensives is a weird turtle shield that is weak and a small heal on a long CD. And the pet is stripped of pretty much All utility and gameplay. What do you have left? Yeah thatâs right, the weak dps rotations.
it wasnât just bard, both bard and machinist (at the time the only phys ranged jobs) were both essentially made into casters, a design choice that was universally panned among jp/na/eu players. they fixed bard in sb, gutted it in shb, and then fixed it again in ew. to this day mch has design issues though
iâm of the mind though that they could make melee survival work, they reworked enh shaman and ww monk going from bfa to sl to not be utter crap. compare their trees in bfa to sl and youâll see they both have the problem sv has; sv doesnât work without its talents. with both the rogue and dk trees theyâve demonstrated they are able to competently design 5 melee specs.
so the only question is: why is sv the redheaded stepchild of the bunch? what is it about sv makes their eyes glaze over?
I am sorry Bepples but this is what I mean, you again try to make a discussion all about how MSV should be removed and they should return to this glorified RSV.
It seems to me to be pretty clear Blizzard wonât do it the way you want it to. And instead of going on a crusade about how that must happen perhaps join the rest of us and discuss how we can make current SV better? or spend all this energy on trying to convince Blizzard to bring Back RSV in some way?
You canât possibly be so hurt/angry (still after what, 6 some years?) about the change that you canât let it go and adapt? They will not just scrap 6 years of development to revert back to 2016. What they Might do is implement RSV or something similar another way.
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Any discussion that validates Blizzardâs failed vision is inherently non-constructive. Itâs like reinforcing the fantasies/delusions of an insane person. The way to make SV better is to go back to a ranged model. Otherwise they can be content with it being a dumpster fire and a black hole of design effort and attention every single expansion.
â6 years of developmentâ has led to the confused, directionless mess you see in the DF talent trees. Nothing of value.
I did not say I think itâs good. But I donât think the answer is âscrap it allâ!
I consider the MSV to be a failure but I donât think that necessarily means they Have to bring back RSV instead, or remove it. I was excited about the MSV. But weâve been let down for two large reworks and several small, over the course of 6 years. I would like them to abandon the current iteration and rework it. While bringing back survival. And yes I know that itâs not or was not the same as MM. But to be a iteration/build in the MM tree is the closest and would make the most sense.
P.S. Yes I know how it sounds, they have failed several reworks but give them another chance⌠I guess I am just a optimist? But the fact is that the second rework (was it in BFA?) was such a lazy job. They didnât actually rework much of anything, just decreased ability bloat and changed smaller things. The core âidentityâ and how they wanted it to work was the same. They did not go back to the drawing table and actually rework it, they just adjusted the current, failed MSV. D.S.
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Yea, you can tell by that post blizz was not happy with the surv tree feedback. At all.
Good.
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Donât. QA is bugfixing, not sanity checking developer designs. The job of QA is âDoes this ability/quest/item/etc work the way it is supposed to?â, not âIs this a good idea from a game design perspective?â.
Check the blue posts in the CC forum, there have already been some changes to the trees in response to feedback, but we canât see them until alpha drops (and a leak says thatâs tomorrow). There will be a LOT more feedback once alpha is out, and expect rapid iteration (or at least engagement) in response.
If you donât see that, find all the devs Twitter accounts and @ them as much as you can.
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This is the design for everybody. When you hit level 10, you choose a spec, get access to the Class Tree, get one ability for free and one point to spend. When you hit level 11, you get access to the Spec Tree, and one point to spend there. For every spec released so far (excepting Subtlety, because ???), the only option is a core spec ability that every player of that spec needs to have to be functional.
BIG BRAID, #BLIZZARDFIXHUNTERS! I THINK THE PROBLEM IS THAT GIVE USE MOSR THINGS BASELINE! GIVE US OPTIONS TO DEFINSIVES, GIVE HUNTER MORE ABILITIES
I like it, Picaso
Yo Asthelon. You posted in Alpha about making Raptor Strike Baseline. I love it. Listen. Look at all the baseline hunter abilities. SV cant use them. MM gets half of their rotation baseline. Yes Raptor Strike should be baseline. Rogues get half their kit baseline lol. And no, Mongoose Bite is not just a suped up Raptor Strike. It is an entirely different playstyle. Most SV hunters wont touch MB until they get enough haste to make it out perform the constant damage of RS. Get back in there and make the case. Limzinara does not know what they are saying.
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