Survival Suggestions

Classes Hunter
21

They’re not sub 20 second cooldown. They are exactly 20 second cooldown with only Harpoon having the potential for cd reset.

Only Harpoon gets the cd reset, which means you only have the potential to reset 10% max health restore.

I’ve already showed you that Fury Warrior has Impending Victory, which is a 30% max health restore on a 25 second cd that can be reset with the same frequency as Harpoon.

Consider 1 minute of combat that includes securing 1 kill at the 55 second mark.

Survival
20 seconds - Disengage 10%, Harpoon 10% = 20%.
40 seconds - Disengage 10%, Harpoon 10% = 20%
55 seconds - Harpoon 10% = 10%
60 seconds - Disengage 10% = 10%
Total - 60%

Fury Warrior
25 seconds - Impending Victory - 30%
50 seconds - Impending Victory - 30%
55 seconds - Impending Victory - 30%
Total - 90%

The Fury Warrior holds a significant lead on health restoration in this scenario and the advantage snowballs with every kill that resets the cd of Harpoon and Impending Victory.

I’ve also showed you that Fury Warrior has Bloodthirst which heals for 3% max health with a 4.5 second cd reduced by Haste.

Bloodthirst’s cd is also reduced by another 1.5 seconds during Avatar, which is 20 second duration on a 1.5 minute cd.

So while you can try to say that Kill Command is spammable, you’re likely only going to get 3 or 4 off before the resets stall and you’re sitting that longer cd than what Bloodthirst has. You also have to admit that you would be tanking your offense for the effort by throwing away Focus and stacks of Tip of the Spear.

The reality is that Kill Command is not spammed, but weaved in between your other attacks to bolster them with Tip of the Spear, which puts its common usage with a 2% max health heal very much on par with the common usage of Bloodthirst with a 3% max health heal.

I have a perfectly valid point and have clearly demonstrated such.

You take issue with the health restoration, but I’ve laid out in detail how other specs have comparable and even superior health restoration than what I’m suggesting.

You try to muddy the argument by bringing in matters such as gap-closing, root clears, and increased movement speed as though these other specs suffer any less time on target than Survival, as though they don’t have their own tools that provide comparable effects.

Terms of Engagement and Posthaste are nothing new. As they are on live, no one has any issue with them because every other melee spec has comparable means to ensure target uptime. The difference between Survival and these other specs is the lack of self-sustain. Exhilaration alone is not adequate. It doesn’t compare. My suggestions would merely close that gap between the self-healing at the disposal of the other melee specs and that which Survival is sorely lacking.

22

you literally keep ignoring that disengage and harpoon do other things on top of the heal

tell me, does IV also give you a speed boost + clear all roots + root the target?

oh sick, does fury warrior also have exhil + rejuv wind?

yes, and they dont have a 10 % max hp heal tacked on live. do you really think that’s equitable at all lmao

1 Like
23

Because it literally does not matter. I am absolutely baffled as to why you keep trying to place so much emphasis on this.

In PVE, which is the part of the game that you claim to be concerned about, there is no situation in the game where any of those things are going to matter because the Warrior is going to be right on target to use Impending Victory just as easily as the Hunter being able to use Disengage or Harpoon. The only difference is that the Warrior will actually restore more health than the Hunter and only have to spend a single gcd to do so.

If these suggestions went through, Disengage and Harpoon would see far more use in PVE often with no interest in their primary use, just for the health restoration, not unlike Havoc DH Momentum builds that used Vengeful Retreat and Fel Rush for a window of increased damage dealt rather than their mobility factors.

Impending Victory does not give a speed boost. It doesn’t have to because the Warrior has another talent called War Machine that causes every kill to generate 5 Rage and increase movement speed by 30% for 8 seconds.

It doesn’t clear roots and it doesn’t have to. In any PVE fight where a Warrior might be rooted, he has Spell Reflect, Avatar, and 2 charges of Bladestorm should he feel it necessary.

It doesn’t root the target and it doesn’t have to. The Warrior has 2 charges of Charge to root the target.

No. The Fury Warrior has Rallying Cry to increase the entire raid’s health by 10%, Bitter Immunity to restore 20% health and remove all diseases, poisons, and curses, and Pain and Gain to passively restore 2% health every 10 seconds for taking any damage.

Again, you’re placing a terribly irrational amount of emphasis on the fact that I’ve suggested the healing come from existing abilities with other functions.

You haven’t even stopped to consider the nuances of having to use multiple gcds for what still amounts to less healing than what other specs have, or that there will be scenarios where you may find it more important to forego the healing in favor of having access to the primary function of the ability.

Do you also find Vanish to be an egregious offender because in addition to rendering the Rogue unable to be targeted for dmg it also heals for 30% health while Aspect of the Turtle provides no health restoration?

What about how Consecration and Judgment can provide healing in addition to their damage, while Wildfire Bomb and Raptor Strike are only able to deal damage?

Adding additional effects to other abilities is not a new concept nor does it break the game. The combat kit as a whole has to be taken into consideration and what I’ve suggested falls well within the lines of what other melee specs have access to.

24

Counter- / Similar Suggestions:

  1. ALL ranged actions may now be used via Survival’s hand-crossbow.
  2. Arcane Shot replaced with Cobra Shot as the level 2 baseline Focus spender.
    • Cobra Shot VFX updated to look like a simple but potently quick shot with subtle arc and faint green projectile — like a striking cobra instead of a yeeted toy.
    • Beast Mastery instead gets Cobra Senses in place of its Cobra Shot talent.
    • Cobra Shot also applies Viper’s Venom.
  3. Base Deathblow chance for all specs and Kill Command reset chance for Survival increased to 15%.
  4. Twin Tactics passive added to Survival baseline, causing its ranged Focus-spending actions to each reduce the cost of your next melee Focus-spending action by 10, stacking up to a total of 30 Focus reduction carried at a time. Natural Mending’s effectiveness is not reduced by this amount saved.
  5. Mending Bandages is now baseline at level 4 but no longer instantly clears poisons, bleeds, or diseases. Instead, it now heals for up to 20% health over up to 5 seconds and causes all existing instances of DoT damage against you to be 15% less effective per second, stacking up to 75%.
    • Its place as a PvP talent is replaced by Rapid Recovery, which increases the speed of Mending Bandage’s affliction-suppression and the effectiveness of healing over time effects that you apply to yourself, including natural health recovery and Camouflage, by 200%.
  6. Shell Tactics replaced again with Den Recovery.
Orrrr (high-flavor pipedream)
  • Shell Tactics replaced with Adamantoise, replacing Aspect of the Turtle, causing a pacted adamantoise (giant tortoise, roughly 7 yards in diameter) to unbury itself forcefully from the ground at the target location, knocking up all enemies nearby. The pacted adamantoise intercepts all attacks against you while you are within 10 yards of its center and shares with you a barrier equal to 40% of your health while active. This barrier can be used to intercept attacks against allies near it as well until depleted. Upon summon, the action is replaced by Command Adamantoise, forcing it to move to the target location. Unlike most pets, the Adamantoise may invulnerably detonate traps and similar non-beneficial ground effects. The adamantoise has health equal to 60% of your own and will be forced to re-bury early if damaged beyond that.
    • The excess of any attack which re-buries the tortoise will continue to its original target with its remaining damage.
    • The tortoise moves at roughly normal pet speed, which only looks slow due to its massive size.
    • Yes, this means you can continue attacking while benefiting from Turtle.
  • Adamantoise shares a choice node with Plains Roc, which replaces Aspect of the Cheetah. It summons a Plains Roc that dashes through you in the direction you’re facing and then twice more within 6 seconds between two points (or targets), each time leaving a wake of air that increases your and allies’ movement speed by 90% and enemy movement and attack speed by 30%, for 3 seconds. Rate of fade is halved while in the wake of air. For 12 seconds after activating Plains Rock, your movement speed is increased by a minimum of 30%. Effect on others halved in PvP.