Survival hunters

Hi. You are shooting at the wrong target on this one.
Or rather, using the wrong ammunition.

Was there meant to be a counter-argument in your post? Because there wasn’t one. It’s just this + a bunch of your boring life story I don’t care about.

Being an “Icy Veins cookie cutter karen” is actually a more successful approach to the game than “figuring it out for yourself :D” because you can never hope to know the class as well let alone better than the combined knowledge of an entire class’s community.

Do you guys also apply this approach to real life as well? “Don’t read articles and papers; figure out general relativity all by yourself :D”. Building off previously-established knowledge is how the world works. What you want in a WoW guide is peer review; you don’t always get it, but the Hunter Icy Veins is maintained by the admin of Trueshot Lodge (Hunter discord) and is subject to a lot of feedback and criticism; it’s kept very up-to-date and is known to be reliable. As much as it doesn’t fit your romantic view of a solo player learning the ins-and-outs of the class, you’re not going to unlock some hidden knowledge that got missed by the Icy Veins guide.

MM and even BM are significantly advantaged by being ranged in a PvE environment that generally favours ranged. It’s not enough to deflect criticism of Survival with “all Hunters are bad” because Survival is in a significantly worse state than the others.

The Icy Veins guide acknowledges the strengths of Hydra’s Bite and says that it’s tuned to a situation that doesn’t come up a lot in current PvE. I know I don’t play the spec but judging from what I’ve seen and heard from Survival Hunters I find it extremely difficult to believe that passing up Wildfire Bomb functionality is ever a desirable approach for SV.

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In a mythic plus dungeon the extra bomb is important because of the extra cluster proc, depending on how spread the adds are and how long the fight, spreading serpent sting sting will result in higher damage.

FOr SV in aoe purposes outside of bombs and cluster, all other focus is to spreading serpent sting so if you are focusing on spreading serpent sting keeping your carve and wildfire bombs on cd the dps difference between GT and Hydra’s isn’t that much and gap widens in hydra’s favor in longer adds fight.

GT does pair very well with first strike koryan and it is a little bit more straightforward, both have their strengths.

I mean it’s cool man. Continue. You’re also forgetting my Palidin, Warrior, etc. etc. All the rest of the heathens angry over being told the truth give it little hearts.

You’re a child, get over it.

Stop telling people they are wrong. They get mad. I’m not going to argue with you, I’m not mad at you, you provided legitimate opinions and and a train of thought that sounds like your brain functions correctly.

Well played. I don’t think the rest of them know exactly what’s going on here, or what I am doing. I’m proving a point, I think you’re one of the few that has figured it out.

Whining. Thats. All. It. Is.

These forums are nothing but bloviating people complaining about something they don’t like.

Here we go with the blue gear comment again, again, away from game for 5 months… I love how that is basically the only relevant argument any of you can make. You didn’t write any guides, stop lying. You are literally lying about what you have done on that toon when you didn’t even hit 40 on it until 2018 before the level squish. Then say you have been using it for theory crafting since 2010? And yes, crit is better than verse.

I know this may be a shocker to you. But sometimes people play multiple accounts. And Im not lying. That being said I don’t need to prove or validate anything to a troll that contributes nothing to the hunter community and creates nothing but strife.

And lastly noone that understands stat weights would attempt to use an absolute (ie crit is better than verse) without encompassing it within the situation it fits ie Crit is better than verse patchwerk, or per x soft/hard cap. Especially when the stat weights of crit vs verse are virtually negligible in both single target and aoe as you approach 33% crit, Haste is the deciding factor.

Here is an example

9.0.5 Surv stat allocation Patchwerk imgur .com /hzzBvBy

9.0.5 Surv stat weights Patchwerk imgur. com /dWcELa4

9.0.5 Surv stat allocation Add cleave imgur. com /h9LRtFZ

9.0.5 Surv stat weights Add cleave imgur .com /RThyQ5j

This is your argument? a 39 dps patchwerk delta? That 39 dps is going to make survival competitive? Have a nice day.

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You know, you could help demonstrate your “credibility” a lot by showing an example or two of something the guide gets wrong and evidence that Survival is capable of way more than what’s apparent from the meta choices. You sure make a whole lot of bold claims and try to project confidence but you never post anything to back them up.

The reason people keep highlighting your personal progress is because they are thinking about credibility and it doesn’t appear you have any. Why should people take seriously anything posted by someone who evidently has no experience in competitive content whatsoever?


Hydra’s bite is never better in mythic plus. Ever.

And it’s not tuned to do well enough either.

You can use it, sure. I’ve tested it. It’s not anywhere near cluster unfortunately.

You can use hyrdas with cluster

You can, it’s still not worth. Missing a ton of dmg not running bombs

Eh, the extra bomb really only applies at the start, from there depending on how long the adds last hydra’s only gets stronger, serpent sting is actually really strong.

Always has been. It’s just limiting your damage at the moment.

Doesn’t mean you can’t use it, there’s just a reason why icy veins says what it says.

I run guerilla tactics and clusters (poorly) but I will say, tab targetting to spread stings is not a fun mechanic. If I could get hydras and two bomb charges Id be all over it. Or just some other way to spread sting to multiple mobs.

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I had someone on Reddit question why Serpent Spread (Multi-Shot applies Serpent Sting to all targets) was a fun mechanic. This is exactly why.


Eh I prefer Butchery. I have talent builds for all three sure, but i like the discount whirlwind

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Butchery has a much more satisfying visual and sound effect. I like to play with it in world content sometimes.

Just wanted to point out this is one of the most useful and considerately-toned Bepples posts I’ve ever read (and you do tend to put some good info out there.)

From top to bottom, this post makes an excellent case for why, what might otherwise be considered an ad hominem is a valid argument.

While there are many complaints about SV, it’s probably one of the only specs that had sooooo many builds and talent choices that change the spec play style.

They also have a ton of potential. Unfortunately they aren’t even remotely tuned.

Folks get so heated when they are told what the best choice is, simply because they may enjoy something else.

It’s okay to play your own flavor. But bepples was right and there’s a reason for places like icy veins…to tell you what is bis. It’s a tool to help. Refusing to accept it is just being arrogant and wrong. And if you don’t like it, just stay off the website and don’t follow it lol.

You won’t be as competitive as you could be, but that’s your own decision as some folks don’t play to be competitive.

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You do know what a guide is right? Guides give you references and starting points. Looking at a guide is not going to make you god or a terrible player. Sure an experienced player can probably get by without needing a guide, but looking at a guide is not some horrible decision that leads to you only being able to do things the guide said. And to be honest, an experienced player is probably going to read through a guide or two at least once just to see what everyone else had figured out, because you know… why reinvent the wheel when someone else already has?

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