i would do the same except start the tree with wildfire bomb. i’d argue it’s much more iconic to the spec than their generic focus dump and they don’t want to start specs with 2 nodes.
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I like that idea too
Then why do you keep reffering to kill command on bm and sv as if it was the exact same thing?
I swear, you weren’t this deranged back in february
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Well this convo got out of hand last night, lol.
Look, heres the thing. Unless you played rsv in lk, you really have zero knowledge of the ranged surv. Explosive shot was wayyyyy different, it wasn’t just a shoot and go boom. You literally had to internally practice a slight delay so you were clipping bomb procs. Black arrow had a cd and was only used on one target. SS was your multi dot. Honestly, you NEVER used arcane shot (i think it was, or steady shot but that doesnt sound right). You were always maintainng the different timing of ES’s procs.
Cobra shot did not even come around until like mop or even legion. By then blizz had completely screwed up surv’s rotation because they were trying to do something with ES’s timing when in reality all they had to do was change the spell’s dynamics. Honestly, it all depended of if you could keep a timer in your head so you didnt clip procs. Rsv was nothing like mm, not even remotely close to mm. It was like the last part of legion or so when the big “homogenization” movement went through blizz to force all specs to be 100% alike. When that happen blizz found a cope out and made surv alot like mm, which pissed off MASSIVE amount of hunters. Tons of hunters quit playing surv after that. After the movement left blizz tried to bring surv back into revelance, and they did it by making it melee and claiming it was about rexxar but it was ultimately about getting players to play surv again. The first tier they overtuned the hell out of it to get ppl to play it. Some did, mostly meta chasers, but the majority of hunters wouldnt touch it bc it was melee. After the spec representations came out and msv was at the bottom, blizz quit investing in it. It had all the new things every xpac but it sat at the bottom of both the dmg logs and the representation tables with feral druids.
It wasnt until SL S3 when blizz reintroduced tier sets and they MASSIVELY overtuned the sets for surv before it came off the bottom and into viability.
So, in regards to msv, its only identity is that of blizz’s complete and utter failed experiment that blizz either overtunes to get ppl to play it, or it sits at the bottom. Thats it. Msv has always been the meme spec.
In the future, it doesnt look any better. They brought back the trap playstyle that everyone despises, they filled the tree with dead talents, and the TWO things that made surv successful this tier, bomb cluster leggo and mad bombadier arent even on the tree. Replaced by “deadly duo” that is dead on arrival, and fury, which wasn’t anythiny good back in the day, surv is NOT looking good at all for DF.
Therefore, the only way for blizz to get out of the hole they are in with surv is return to lk rsv. Give it the same rotation but add bombs. That be cool.
But the point is that msv has and will forever be the meme, failed experiment spec of wow.
They didn’t. What an intellectually dishonest thing to say.
You need to check your history. You’re right about the old ES mechanic requiring a slight delay to avoid clipping, but everything else is way off.
Cobra Shot showed up in Cata as a means for BM and SV to refresh Serpent Sting while generating Focus.
Specs were heavily homogenized in MoP, but even then, it was utility more than anything else.
WoD had significant divergence for MM and SV with MM being 100% casted shots excepting Chimaera on cooldown, and SV being 100% instants excepting Cobra.
Legion was the melee rework.
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Even if i am a bit off on timing and such, the core aspects of my argument still stand. Surv at its core bc blizz freaking messed with it was NOWHERE like mm. Period. Also msv has been a meme spec since its inception. This is also true.
Yes, yes he did. Whenever he mentions how SV steals from BM identity, KC is the second skill he mentions
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What if survival was made rotationally/fundamentally the same as its LK~ version, but kept melee?
Not saying that would or should happen, but would it theoretically appeal to the old-survival camp, or are would they stay allergic because it isn’t ranged?
Nope. Melee was and still is primary reason why people dont like it. Second is its horrible playstyle.
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It’s fun right now in my opinion, but that’s only due to tier+leggo being bananas.
Not so much fun in a skillful, fulfilling rotation with complexity that brings satisfaction, but rather “Hehe. Throw Bomb. Bomb go boom. Thing die. Big dam.”
It’s a spec that can’t survive unless it’s overtuned.
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I’ve always preferred MM, since Vanilla, but I dabble in other specs to see whether I like them or not. I really liked RSV in Cata/MoP, less so in WoD. I always tend to bounce off BM because of pet pathing issues (I miss Blink Strikes), and I bounced off MSV in Legion due to the gameplay being not fun, and in SL due to melee.
I soloed with the meme RSV build for a bit, which was reasonably enjoyable when using Flayed Shot, but the numbers were so bad it’s not feasible for anything with a DPS check.
I think if there was “Cata/MoP-like MSV”, I would try it, but probably not play it beyond some initial testing. If I want to play a melee DPS with DoTs and procs, I’ll play Enhancement.
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SV and BM Kill Command are a hell of a lot closer than SV and MM Explosive Shot. The new Explosive Shot is a 30 sec cooldown that interacts with nothing from the rest of the spec. To argue that modern MM in any way represents the theme and gameplay of ranged SV requires either extreme delusion or ignorance.
To me, it wouldn’t. Having a ranged weapon is a critical part of what makes a Hunter in WoW. In fact being a ranged spec with the current SV gameplay (albeit the melee abilities swapped out with ranged equivalents) is more preferable than what you described.
Which version of sv we talking about? And no. Apart from name and animation KC are nothing alike. Just like explo shot.
Or maybe by your logic DK and Warlock death coil is also the same?
Never said that.
Ive only popped into Hunter forums a handful of times since i started maining survival in SL S1, and i gotta say, I’ve never seen anyone has caustic over a single thing in the game as Bepples is over msv
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You clearly have never been in GD when flying, pvp, LFR, M+, or really anything is being discussed, nor were you in any of the beta discussions about Torghast. RSV vs MSV is about the only contentious issue on this forum, and aside from a couple bad faith trolls, the discussion is downright tame by comparison.
Bepples is complaining because his preferred spec got deleted and a bunch of people who like the new Survival (not accusing you specifically) come in the Hunter forums on a consistent basis and try to gaslight longtime Hunters about how “Survival was originally melee” or “RSV was never popular” or “RSV was always just differently colored MM” or “Who cares MM has Explosive Shot and Serpent Sting”.
I was there. I saw what it was like with my own eyes. I played it semi-frequently, though I’ve always preferred MM. The revisionist history is extremely tiring, and worse, the people who haven’t been around long enough to know better might actually believe it.
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Hello friend! 
Don’t be hard on the little tike, he just wants attention and a 
I feel bad for the anguish he feels inside, it must be hard for him. 
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