Succubus is sexist please remove/ incubus incoming

[Laragonsia-proudmoore]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

I want my incubus tho.

Introducing incubus is like seeing house A is burning, but instead of helping house A, you decide to burn house B.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

Again, your framing of the succubus, if sincere, is canonically incorrect and you should review your lore, or my posts

@Baalsamael-turalyon

We’re in a mutually beneficial contract with her. We feed her the hearts of good men, she does our bidding when we choose to summon her. We stop feeding her the hearts of good men, she’s free to go because contract is broken.

The outfit could use some touchups (I mean the Madonna cone bra is just… so 90s), and I wouldn’t object to something like a Victorian Dominatrix (so long as we get the equivalent for an Incubus because we were promised such ten years ago

If anything, the canonical lore of our in-game succubus minion is much improved over the IRL myth:

@Baalsamael-turalyon

In myth? No, the oldest iteration of the succubus, the “Lilin” or “lilu”, are traditionally the daughters/servants of Lilith, who in some retellings is the “first vampire” (because she survived on blood in the desert East of Eden) or the “mother of demons” (folklore which started as Jewish myth and spread to both Christians and Muslims over the centuries) by being the consort of Satan (and in some iterations of Jewish medieval theology, she is the mother of Cain).

Otherwise some other “Night Women” vary from the Greek Lampades (who serve Hekate), Irish Banshees (who are often described as beautiful, particularly the Banshee Queen Cliodhna), or the more cursory and globally “White Lady” myths (e.g. Latin American Llorona), or the Greek Lamia.

Notably, the Mesopotamian Lilu which became the Jewish Lilin (of Lilith) was translated by Hellenic Jews in the Septuagint as “Daimonia” (Demons, or Spirits) in Isaiah 34 while the Roman Church translated it as Greek Lamia but Latinized and retained.

Medieval Jewish theology maintained the Succubi were the children of the Demon Queens while Western Christian tradition the Succubi and Incubi were divided into two separate beings.

Notably both the Lamia of Greek is derived also from the Mesopotamian myth of the Lammashtu/Lammea (historical speculation) who is separate from the Lilu, but the Lammea are daughter/s of Anu while the Lilu are tied to Inanna/Ishtar.

In every iteration and in its mythological genealogy, the succubus is a predator and a servant, and tied to both nocturnal emissions, the death of newborns (particularly male newborns), or children both with malformations, usually due to punishment of the parents.

The real issue is we lack an Incubus and we lack Warlock Stables.

[Laragonsia-proudmoore]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

Again, your framing of the succubus, if sincere, is canonically incorrect and you should review your lore, or my posts

That succubus quest is no longer canon, Warlock summon/sacrifice different succubus than the one you form a pact back in the day now.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

Nope, class quests, even if removed, retain canonicity in this regard.

We do not learn to summon a succubus by ourselves upon reaching level 20 by inhaling air.

Especially given the new quest to summon a voidwalker from the void via a grimoire that requires to subjugate the voidwalker is indeed the same canon as the previous versions of the quest.

Next question?

[Laragonsia-proudmoore]

Then how do you explain that Warlock’s demon no longer has a fixed name?

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

Because we canonically summon a demon/aberration from a grimoire ritual, and then enter into a contract with it (for all the rational demons) or forcibly subjugate it (for the felpuppy because it is a demon dog and void aberrations because they require being subjugated as otherwise they’d consume reality).

While for gameplay reasons we can cha cha slide over to Demon/Aberration Renaming NPC and just “randomly select a new demon”, canonically this is not the material reality.

Canonically each time we are “changing our demons”, we actually would have to do the ritual again and enter in a contract with a new demon (or subjugate them for the 3 minions aforementioned) and release the previous demon (or aberration) from contract.

Unless of course warlock stables are added, in which case you could just endlessly keep any demon in a giant grimoire and just pick your favorites any given day.

All of which you would know if you read my warlock stables post

Warlock Customization: Stables for Demons/Aberrations

Copy pasting from my Shadowlands Compilation thread in the warlock forums lol Consider: Short and sweet asks: Please give warlocks the ability to speak Demonic once more. This was removed when Demon Hunters were added, and it doesn’t make sense given presumably demon summoning rituals are in demonic. Similarly, given we summon the Voidwalker/Voidlord, I would argue we should be able to speak Shath’yar given Void summoning rituals are in Shath’yar presumably. Please fix the Wrathguard dua…

[Luuni-area-52]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

Eredar (both models)

Blizzard…… I mean… this is going to be a really, really big please.

Also a red Draenei warlock. It’d be double the Draenei. The game would explode.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

like/bump the stable post then smh

[Laragonsia-proudmoore]

Dude nobody care about your stupid thread, basically yes you change demon and not every succubus share the same thought as the one you met in the Classic quest.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

Incorrect!

All demons have an inherent nature and past.

All succubi feed on the hearts of good men, and require sustenance to be worked with as part of the contract.

Our Observer freely entered into a contract with us because he greatly enjoys eating and observing different magics (Green Fire Legacy of the Masters questline), as is his nature.

Our Eredar Wrathguard loves killing things and is happily in contract because we are nicer than the Burning Legion generals, and he was an Eredar on Argus, etc.

Know your lore

[Luuni-area-52]

I don’t play my warlock much. Can’t you get one of those ladies who has like six arms instead of your succubus?

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

Shivarra yes, it is a glyph, but only the red-gold outfit purple skin combination shivarra, the rest are inaccessible

[Laragonsia-proudmoore]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

All demons have an inherent nature and past.

Kinda cringe thing to say since not every demon fought for the same side.

Anyway im not for changing succubus’s look anyway, i want them replaced.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

@Laragonsia-proudmoore

Kinda cringe thing to say since not every demon fought for the same side.

Actually it’s part of the canon due to the effects of demonic corruption.

Again, know your lore.

@Laragonsia-proudmoore

Anyway im not for changing succubus’s look anyway, i want them replaced.

And I want an incubus and warlock stables.

Alas here we are.

The Madonna Cone Bra is definitely outdated, very 90s, as I’ve stated.

[Laragonsia-proudmoore]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

Actually it’s part of the canon due to the effects of demonic corruption.

Nah you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about, read your lore.

There are bad Shivarra and there are “good” one, to imply they’re all the same prove that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

You probably believe there all multiple Ashbringer as well.

Kinda cringe if you ask me. Read more.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

@Laragonsia-proudmoore

There are bad Shivarra and there are “good” one, to imply they’re all the same prove that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Shivarra aren’t succubi silly goose

They have an entirely different nature and purpose.

[Laragonsia-proudmoore]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

Shivarra aren’t succubi silly goose

Of course you’re not smart enough to notice that im just giving an example that not all demon think the same.

It went waaaaay over your head, this is why you need to read more.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

Shivarra actually all follow the same nature, their purpose is to dominate, torture, and manipulate other beings.

All demons have free will, but they also have inherent natures.

Such is the metaphysics of WoW demons and aberrations

[Laragonsia-proudmoore]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

Shivarra actually all follow the same nature, their purpose is to dominate, torture, and manipulate other beings.

Wrong again.

[Baalsamael-turalyon (Baalsamael)]

Alas, I am not wrong; again, review your lore between the legacy of the masters questline, the Shivarra voice lines (there’s more than the combat ones, fun fact, the minions are all quite chatty), and the other demonstrations of who they are and what purpose they serve